Are there particular dialogs where this is an issue, or is it perhaps just on Windows that the issue exists? I just tried Measure Properties, Time Signature Properties, Text Properties, and File / Open, and they all close with Esc for me on Ubuntu. I also tried it on my Windows machine accessed remotely via Chrome Remote Desktop, and it works there too with the dialogs I tried.
Or maybe you mean *non-modal* dialogs? These wouldn't normally close with Esc. For us, that would include the Play Panel, Mixer, Master Palette, etc.
Apologies for not being precise. I received a report for the Symbols (Z) window. Not really a modal window but instead a window on itself, which can be switched using Alt+Tab.
So question here is whether we can do something to improve accessibility or it is what it is, i.e. closing the window using Alt+F4.
My initial feeling would be to close this issue and state that Alt+F4 has to be used.
That's my vote as well as a sighted user, but I'm less sensitive to the issue than a blind user would be. I do think it valuable that the window remain non-modal, as it can be useful to insert multiple characters in different places. But there are other times I do wish I could more easily place just a single symbol.
I vote to somehow allow ESC to close these type of Windows, especially the Z palette. It is very intrusive to workflow when you accidentally press Z instead of X, and a window pops up that will not go away like most normal windows do.
As I'm thinking a little further about it, I understand why the Z palette is really a separate window and not a modal. The former is closed by Alt+F4, the latter with Esc. With a windows, you can switch between them, drag and drop content between them etc.
So I guess the main question is whether we want to break the standard window/modal pattern and extend a window with a Esc action to close it. And just to add my sentiment: I'm not sure it's a good idea to break the standard UX pattern here.
In my experience most users don't know what Alt-F4 does, and how powerful it really it, most rely on using the mouse and clicking X to close a window.
However, the main issue here is the disruption in workflow then those types of windows are accidentally opened. Most people are encouraged to use the keyboard for note entry, and when you get proficient at it, having a window pop up when you don't expect it is very jarring. My first reaction is to press ESC to get rid of it.
Can you explain how allowing ESC to close those types of windows will cause issues?
"As this issue is cataloged under accessibility, people who depend on the keyboard know Alt-F4 very well."
That is a very grand assumption, and without evidence. As I said, my experience even among those who have used Windows for a long time but rely on the mouse/GUI and not keyboard don't know about Alt-F4. Just because some of us do, I make no assumptions about others.
My experience is that *people who must rely on the keyboard do tend to know the standard shortcuts, even relatively obscure ones like this, which is indeed not well known among the sighted. Still, I do think the Symbols palette is one that even us "light dependent" folks would appreciate being able to close more easily. Even though it is non modal, it somehow feels different than other non modal dialogs in how it directly inserts a symbol into the score and then has usually served it's purpose. I guess the other palette dialogs are like this too - time and key signature especially.
So if.it is technically possible to make Escape close the palette window as a special case, and it doesn't violate any rules of GUI design, I think I would favor it for this case.
After talking this through with Werner and Lasconic, we believe that deviating from the standard Window UX behaviour would open up an array of possible issues. So for that matter, we leave the issue for what it is.
Comments
Are there particular dialogs where this is an issue, or is it perhaps just on Windows that the issue exists? I just tried Measure Properties, Time Signature Properties, Text Properties, and File / Open, and they all close with Esc for me on Ubuntu. I also tried it on my Windows machine accessed remotely via Chrome Remote Desktop, and it works there too with the dialogs I tried.
Or maybe you mean *non-modal* dialogs? These wouldn't normally close with Esc. For us, that would include the Play Panel, Mixer, Master Palette, etc.
Apologies for not being precise. I received a report for the Symbols (Z) window. Not really a modal window but instead a window on itself, which can be switched using Alt+Tab.
So question here is whether we can do something to improve accessibility or it is what it is, i.e. closing the window using Alt+F4.
My initial feeling would be to close this issue and state that Alt+F4 has to be used.
That's my vote as well as a sighted user, but I'm less sensitive to the issue than a blind user would be. I do think it valuable that the window remain non-modal, as it can be useful to insert multiple characters in different places. But there are other times I do wish I could more easily place just a single symbol.
I vote to somehow allow ESC to close these type of Windows, especially the Z palette. It is very intrusive to workflow when you accidentally press Z instead of X, and a window pops up that will not go away like most normal windows do.
As I'm thinking a little further about it, I understand why the Z palette is really a separate window and not a modal. The former is closed by Alt+F4, the latter with Esc. With a windows, you can switch between them, drag and drop content between them etc.
So I guess the main question is whether we want to break the standard window/modal pattern and extend a window with a Esc action to close it. And just to add my sentiment: I'm not sure it's a good idea to break the standard UX pattern here.
In my experience most users don't know what Alt-F4 does, and how powerful it really it, most rely on using the mouse and clicking X to close a window.
However, the main issue here is the disruption in workflow then those types of windows are accidentally opened. Most people are encouraged to use the keyboard for note entry, and when you get proficient at it, having a window pop up when you don't expect it is very jarring. My first reaction is to press ESC to get rid of it.
Can you explain how allowing ESC to close those types of windows will cause issues?
As this issue is cataloged under accessibility, people who depend on the keyboard know Alt-F4 very well.
I'll check with the lead dev if there is an option to use Esc. My guess is that we depend on Qt for this matter.
Keep you posted.
"As this issue is cataloged under accessibility, people who depend on the keyboard know Alt-F4 very well."
That is a very grand assumption, and without evidence. As I said, my experience even among those who have used Windows for a long time but rely on the mouse/GUI and not keyboard don't know about Alt-F4. Just because some of us do, I make no assumptions about others.
My experience is that *people who must rely on the keyboard do tend to know the standard shortcuts, even relatively obscure ones like this, which is indeed not well known among the sighted. Still, I do think the Symbols palette is one that even us "light dependent" folks would appreciate being able to close more easily. Even though it is non modal, it somehow feels different than other non modal dialogs in how it directly inserts a symbol into the score and then has usually served it's purpose. I guess the other palette dialogs are like this too - time and key signature especially.
So if.it is technically possible to make Escape close the palette window as a special case, and it doesn't violate any rules of GUI design, I think I would favor it for this case.
After talking this through with Werner and Lasconic, we believe that deviating from the standard Window UX behaviour would open up an array of possible issues. So for that matter, we leave the issue for what it is.
Two new issues related to this:
#37831: Keep master palette at the top in the window stack
#37836: Shift+F9 doesn't close opened master palette