appearance of a triplet

• Oct 19, 2011 - 20:18

How can I change the appearance of a triplet? At the moment a triplet can be embedded in a hook. Or you can omit that hook.
I want to change that hook into a curved one (something like the one which is used for a slur). Is there a possibility to do that?
Joe.

Comments

• Oct 21, 2011 - 16:27

Since nobody is responding, do I have to put this problem on the 'Feature Request' Forum?
As a 'solution' I am now (mis)using a slur with '3' above it.
Joe.

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• Oct 21, 2011 - 17:56

I agree, other programs provide this feature, so it would be nice to have, and if I were you I'd just go ahead and submit a feature request in the issue tracker. But - this has not been the recommend way to do triplets for quite some time. Do you have a special reason for needing this now-obsolete style of marking?

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• Oct 21, 2011 - 18:51

Why not the tracker? Seems that's exactly what the "Feature Request" category in the tracker is for. I think of the forum as the place to first figure out if the feature is needed (often, it's already there but the poster just doesn't know how to use it), and also how the feature might look. But then I think it makes to log the request in the tracker once some sort of consensus is reached. Might be a little premature to say consensus has been reached already - there have been no opinions at all - but on the other hand, it's not like there have been objections posted here, either.

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• Oct 21, 2011 - 21:40

Issue tracker is for both bugs report and feature requests. Still it's better talking about a bug or a feature request in the relevant forum to make them polish before posting them in the issue tracker.

Regarding the request itself, sure, go ahead! Post it in the issue tracker! I guess a small excerpt of recent edition would put some more weight in the request.

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• Oct 21, 2011 - 22:06

When you post an issue, you see there are several different categories you can assign via a drop down menu. One is "bug report", and another is "feature request". But yes, it is probably a mistake for most people to post feature requests without first discussing in the forum, to make sure the feature really isn't present already and to make sure the request is well thought out.

I actually think one is straightforward enough to not need further discussion, though - unless someone who knows the trunk better than I do knows of something already added to deal with this for 2.0?

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• Oct 21, 2011 - 22:33

Music *bought* within the last 12 months. But was it actually edited or typeset that recently? Sure, if you buy reprints of editions from the 19th century, then indeed, it will still contain old-style notations, because it would require work to change them. But I don't know that many modern editors still use curved triplet brackets in new editions. All the style guides I know of recommend square brackets (where brackets are necessary at all - normally no bracket for beamed notes). This include the Gardner Read "Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice" and the Music Publishers' Association guidelines, both of which date back almost half a century. In fact, I don't think I've seen the curved markings in anything new editions published since then. But since it is a legitimate style that has been used historically, I do think MuseScore should support it.

As for looking nicer, I'd say that's a question of what you are accustomed to. If you are accustomed to modern scores, old-style notations just look old :-). And while any individual editor might think the curved notation looks nicer to him personally, you do have to ask yourself it you are writing for your own usage only or if you ever expect others to read your scores. And if so, it definitely helps readability to follow conventions.

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• Oct 22, 2011 - 00:59

Kevin Mayhew are still using the curved style tuplet in their organ books.

My serious musical training began a little less than 50 years ago and I was always taught to use the curved bracket.

Could this be a regional thing?

Or perhaps Europe hasn't caught up with current thought in the US?

Regards
Michael

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• Oct 22, 2011 - 02:08

Certainly possible. I was under the impression that Gardner Read was considered the definitive authority worldwide, but the MPA style guide referenced I mentioned is a US thing. There is a UK version of the MPA, but if they publish a style guide, I couldn't find any reference to it. When I Google the phrase "definitive reference on music notation uk", the first and most significant / relevant hit is a book called "Behind Bars: The Definitive Guide to Music Notation", written by Elaine Gould and published by Faber Music. The sample pages from the book on their web site show her using square brackets as well. Gould herself seems to be officially endorsed by the UK MPA, but her book is brand new, and this change from curved to square brackets might be something she advocates but that hasn't really caught on yet. Or, perhaps Kevin Mayhew is out of step with current UK practice. Maybe a bit of both.

Anyhow, regardless of which style guide in which country says what or which publisher does what, clearly, the curved bracket *does* have historical validity and should be supported in MuseScore, in my opinion. But I'd also say the evidence is pretty clear that square brackets are where most of the world is moving if they haven't already. Note again - most tuplets need no brackets at all. Just ones that are not beamed as such (eg, crotchets).

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• Oct 23, 2011 - 11:25

'Elaine Gould writes in her book about tuplet brackets: "The numeral should be encompassed by a square bracket, and not the curved arc of older editions, as this looks like a slur.'

Well, I cannot imagine that a curve, which in its centre is interrupted by a digit,
can be misinterpreted for a slur.
Joe.

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• Oct 23, 2011 - 14:41

Just done some digging around with Google, and the picture seems to be rather confused, with some theorists using square brackets for tuplets, some using curved brackets, and some using both!

I would say that for completeness and historical backwards compatibility MuseScore ought to provide both curved and square tuplet brackets for the music scribe to choose from.

Do we have a consensus here?

If so I'll open an issue.

Regards
Michael

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• Oct 23, 2011 - 16:48

Most of the historical editions I have that use curved brackets do not interrupt them for the numeral, so yes, they are easily mistaken fo slurs.

Anyhow, we could have a discussion about how things should be standardized if we were the ones in charge of making the standards, but we are not in charge of the standards, so I guess I don't see the point of such a discussion. There is no question that square brackets are the near unaminious standard today, recommended by every major style guide and used by virtually all major publishers. But I would also say there is no question that MuseScore should also support the 19th century standards.

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• Oct 25, 2011 - 10:13

It is up to the developers to decide whether it gets implemented, but it is up to the community (or individuals) to device whether to put in a formal RFE.
Consensus is that prior to this there should be a discussion about this in the forume, like this one.

I don't see anyone being against 'your' form of triples yet?

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