When I create a new score I get treble clefs for these instruments when they according to modern practice should have a treble clef 8va and treble clef 8vb respectively.
If you aren't working from the latest version then all the improvements over the last few months get reverted back to the old copy you are using. In the future you may find it helpful to using a tool such as TortoiseSVN
to merge your own changes into the latest version of the file.
That may be because they do not know so much about music as one perhaps believes, or that they deliberately want to preserve the old practice of not making it clear in which octave an octave transposing instrument sounds. Since it is a practice I have no litterature references, but it has come about as a consequence of the use of the treble clef 8vb for tenor voice or guitar, and the treble clef 8va for e.g. descant recorder.
Yes, I shall do that. Then I hope Werner didn't erase recent contributions when I sent him my (unfortunately not our) latest version of instruments.xml. Please let me know when I can download instruments.xml.
The link to the instruments.xml is in my comment above, but I recommend learning how to use SVN. Although you might need to take a few minutes to read the documentation, once you understand the basics it is a very useful tool and saves everyone time. I found TortoiseSVN to be the easiest to use (see the link above). Instructions for the mscore project here: http://sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=109430
I'd be happy to help if you have questions along the way.
With regards to the clef issue I think we should have pretty good documentation that the practice you are advocating is the most common among major publishers before going against what Finale, Sibelius, and the scores I've seen indicate. In my experience there is a general understanding the piccolos sound an octave higher than written, etc.
Regarding the consistent use of octave transposing clefs, it is probably not the most common practice -- yet. But I do not see much value in preserving something just because a majority is doing so. The main reason we should treat all octave transposing instruments the same way is to get rid of unnecessary exceptions and make things easier to read and understand. But of course, I do think there should be an option to use non-transposing clefs for octave transposing instruments, but this shouldn't be made the default. And no, we are not going against Finale and Sibelius, we are going ahead of them.
Comments
Since they both use treble clef it is not necessary to specify. As you'll see when you create a new score the clef is correct.
When I create a new score I get treble clefs for these instruments when they according to modern practice should have a treble clef 8va and treble clef 8vb respectively.
Do you have a reference for this? Neither Finale nor Sibelius use 8va/8vb signs for piccolo or bass flute.
Magnus, when you are submitted new versions of the instruments list please make sure you are working from the very latest version. The latest version can always be download here: http://mscore.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mscore/trunk/mscore/share/temp…
If you aren't working from the latest version then all the improvements over the last few months get reverted back to the old copy you are using. In the future you may find it helpful to using a tool such as TortoiseSVN to merge your own changes into the latest version of the file.
That may be because they do not know so much about music as one perhaps believes, or that they deliberately want to preserve the old practice of not making it clear in which octave an octave transposing instrument sounds. Since it is a practice I have no litterature references, but it has come about as a consequence of the use of the treble clef 8vb for tenor voice or guitar, and the treble clef 8va for e.g. descant recorder.
Yes, I shall do that. Then I hope Werner didn't erase recent contributions when I sent him my (unfortunately not our) latest version of instruments.xml. Please let me know when I can download instruments.xml.
The link to the instruments.xml is in my comment above, but I recommend learning how to use SVN. Although you might need to take a few minutes to read the documentation, once you understand the basics it is a very useful tool and saves everyone time. I found TortoiseSVN to be the easiest to use (see the link above). Instructions for the mscore project here: http://sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=109430
I'd be happy to help if you have questions along the way.
With regards to the clef issue I think we should have pretty good documentation that the practice you are advocating is the most common among major publishers before going against what Finale, Sibelius, and the scores I've seen indicate. In my experience there is a general understanding the piccolos sound an octave higher than written, etc.
I shall have a look at TortoiseSVN.
Regarding the consistent use of octave transposing clefs, it is probably not the most common practice -- yet. But I do not see much value in preserving something just because a majority is doing so. The main reason we should treat all octave transposing instruments the same way is to get rid of unnecessary exceptions and make things easier to read and understand. But of course, I do think there should be an option to use non-transposing clefs for octave transposing instruments, but this shouldn't be made the default. And no, we are not going against Finale and Sibelius, we are going ahead of them.
It looks like Werner changed this in r.2047 to match your request.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.