unwanted natural signs can't be removed

• Apr 17, 2023 - 06:50

While working on a score, two natural (accidental) signs appeared and I can't work out how to delete them. I wondered if they were a 'key signature' glitch of some kind, as I can't select or highlight them as suggested on one forum as a way to delete accidentals. Help with this would be appreciated.

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• Apr 17, 2023 - 13:00

Hi, Thanks for the response. When I revisited my score after reading the info you directed me to, suddenly I could delete the natural signs afterall! I don't know what I did differently. Perhaps I have been turning the edit function off by using the play back feature? Anyhow, both links you sent me were interesting to look at. I should probably browse the handbook, as I'm brand new to Musescore. The problem I was was having probably relates more to the first link than the second, although the natural signs seemed not to be assigned to any notes in particular, but rather were just at the beginning (in one case) or at the end (in the other case) of the bar???

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• Sep 21, 2023 - 05:23

I'm gonna revive this post since I seem to have found a similar issue regarding being unable to delete accidentals. If this needs a new thread, let me know.

When a Key signature is inserted after most of the score has been created and all the necessary notes gain an accidental, deleting accidentals on the second note of a tie becomes impossible.

Here's how to reproduce this in Musescore 4.1.1:
1. Start a new score in C Major.
2. Insert multiple different tied notes over any barline.
3. Insert Cb Major key signature at the beginning of the score. Now all the notes all accidentals.
4. Right click an accidental, go to select, and then similar.
6. Delete all accidentals.

Result: All accidentals on the second note of the ties don't delete. And clicking them and selecting delete still doesn't delete them. This essentially breaks ties.

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• Sep 21, 2023 - 09:44

I can't reproduce this in MuS 3.6.2, so maybe it's worth reporting this on Github. Are the ties really broken when Musescore plays the piece? Or is it 'only' a graphical issue and the pitch is correct - in that case try to switch to concert pitch and back again or save the score and reopen it.
(I can't test it because I can't use MuS 4.x)

Doesn't it make more sense to use the "Transpose" command when you want to change from C major to Cb major, instead of specifying the new key and deleting accidentals?

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• Sep 21, 2023 - 10:56

Why would it not make sense? It surely makes sense if you have added an accidental to a tied note without changing key signature that deleting it would not create a new accidental on the second note of the tie and indeed it doesn't. Why should an accidental created as a result of changing the key signature be any different? It looks the same. It does the same thing, it behaves differently though and produces a tie between notes of different pitches which IS a nonsense. You can see it is still a tie by selecting it and looking in the status bar. But if you play it you hear a change in pitch.

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• Sep 21, 2023 - 13:18

Yes, adding or removing an accidental on a tied note must work.

But I meant, and this is another thing: changing from one key to another with the method described can cause pitch problems with some notes that originally had accidentals.
I don't have enough theoretical knowledge about this, unfortunately, but I don't think it will lead to the goal for sure.

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• Sep 21, 2023 - 11:33

After a bit more investigation, the problem seems very consistent and occurs however the accidental is added It also doesn't require the tie to extend over a bar line. For example

Create a score for flute in 4/4 with a key signature of F major. Enter a B natural half note on the first beat tied to an eighth note on the third beat. Add an instrument change to Bb clarinet to the measure. The note is correctly shown transposed as a C#. Now delete the sharp on the half note and it appears on the eighth note and can not be deleted.

Another, even easier way to create an indestructible accidental is just to use the arrow keys to move a tied note up a semitone - e.g. C to C#. Deleting the # on the first note moves it to the second note and it then can't be deleted. If you move the first note up or down further, the second note still follows it and remains a semitone higher than the first note.

Or try this. Enter a half note C tied to an eighth note not crossing a bar line. Select the first note and click on the sharp in the tool bar or in the accidentals palette - result: C# tied to a Cnat!

All very wrong and definitely a regression from 3.6.2 where none of this nonsense happens.

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