TABs do not (properly?) support transposition

• Feb 13, 2015 - 12:27
Type
Functional
Severity
S4 - Minor
Status
closed
Project

Context: today github master, but the issue is present since quite some time.

Description:

Full discussion is in this forum thread , which however intermixes another discussion about dialogue boxes; so I open this issue to clean up the situation.

Specific details for this issue are given in this post and in this post .

However, data given there seem to be in conflict with GuitarPro import strategies; in particular, the way the test files fret-diagram.gp4 and fret-diagram.gp5 are imported into reference files fret-diagram.gp4-ref.mscx and fret-diagram.gp5-ref.mscx respectively (in mtest/guitarpro folder of sources).

These imports do not seem themselves correct, though. For instance fret-diagram.gp4-ref.mscx, which squeezes a 7-string guitar with augmented fourth up transposition (to emulate a capo 6) in a 6-line tab, results in:

test_import_gtp_tab_transp.png

(source GuitarPro file and resulting imported reference file are attached).

Putting aside the 7-string vs. 6-line question (which results on marks for the 7th string to appear in the 1st, but is a different issue), the specific fretting used here is been probably set in Guitar Pro and seems to imply a different convention.

More data are needed to devise a solution for the issue.


Comments

After opening the fret-diagram-gp4-ref.mscx file with MS2Beta2, I do see "Play Transposition" staff property set to "6 - Augmented Fourth", but I noticed that the string data is set to standard guitar tuning. I also don't see the title as shown in the screenshot "Acoustic (DADGAD, Capo 6)".

Q: is this MS file expected to have standard guitar tuning or DADGAD?

Also, I don't have access to guitarpro, so am not sure how the gp4 file renders in that program, but would be happy to be an extra set of eyes if a GP screenshot was attached here.

@mtherieau: thanks for the reply. However, I think it would be better to stick to the specific issue: GTP import may be faulty (number of strings, tuning, what to do when there more strings than lines, ...), in which case other issues should be filed.

But, assuming the current import as an original score (with its standard tuning and all), assigning frets with the method proposed in the thread quoted above:

1) fret numbers come out different;
2) the bottom note of the G#-based chords results outside of the instrument range (even taking into account the 7th string);
3) it is nor possible to fret all the notes of the 6-note chords (again, even taking into account the 7th string);

so the score seems to imply a different system.

Before changing the test ref. score, I want to be sure we are not dealing with a different convention or practice and that the proposed method is not only one among several possibilities.

Looking at two GP screen shots, it seems to me that both the string pitches and tab fingerings are incorrect in the original GP file. The Asus4/E chord diagram indicates a DADGAD tuning (7th is not used, so it's unclear what that pitch would be) but both TAB staffs indicate fret numbers based on standard tuning (Guitar Pro 1.6.6 for iOS explicitly labels standard tuning to the left of the TAB staff).

It also seems that there are three different standard notation representations:
- Guitar Pro Lite 6.1.6: notes are relative to capo 6
- Guitar Pro 1.6.6 for iOS: notes are relative to nut ("Capo 0"?)
- MS2: notes are relative to nut, but also lowered by one octave

@Miwarre: possibly as you say, I'm missing something here? Am not sure exactly which issue you're referring to?

regards,
markt

The issue I am referring to is the following:

Current master (fix for displaying of extra string already merged) renders that GTP4 file with no transposition in the TAB:

NOT FOUND: 1

My transposition fix (not yet merged) renders it according to your request for transposition:

NOT FOUND: 2

In both cases, 6-semitone-up transposition and standard tuning (+ 7th string in B) are assumed (whether this is correct or not is a different issue, relating to GTP import, not to tab rendering); given that transposition, that tuning and that notes:

1) Which example is correct?

2) The second example -- which I assume you would consider correct -- has no way to fret the bottom note of each chord (rendered in red), as it becomes outside of the instrument range, or to fit 6 notes in the 5 available strings (as the 2 top strings cannot be used); what is wrong? the chords or the fretting?

3) Are we sure ("beyond any reasonable doubt", as the saying goes) the first example (no transposition in TAB) does not refer to some practice also in use?

If we can answer these questions, I can complete the fix, correct the GTP test files if necessary and push the patch.

Thanks,

M.

I'll respond with my answers (others: please chime in if you disagree)
Also, allow me to repeat my observation that the import of the GTP4 file into MS2 results in the notes one octave lower than they should be.

> 1) Which example is correct?

mt: imo the "transposition fix" version is closest to correct (but it's off by an octave) As a reference point, I'd suggest that the TAB staff fingerings for the Asus4/E chord should match the chord diagram (i.e. "x200202"), but please also note that in order to match that diagram exactly, the string data must be also be edited to DADGAD tuning. (In any case, the fret numbers in the Asus4/E chord diagram are clearly relative to the capo.)

>2) The second example -- which I assume you would consider correct -- has no way to fret the bottom note of each chord (rendered in red), as it becomes outside of the instrument range, or to fit 6 notes in the 5 available strings (as the 2 top strings cannot be used); what is wrong? the chords or the fretting?

mt: correcting the pitches by raising one octave fixes the range issue.

>3) Are we sure ("beyond any reasonable doubt", as the saying goes) the first example (no transposition in TAB) does not refer to some practice also in use?

mt: personally, every TAB score I have seen that indicates a capo also has fret numbers relative to that capo position.

best regards,
markt

@mtherieau #7: thanks for the reply. As I cannot find a way to match your notes with my results, I suspect there is something wrong in GTP import and I'll alert the GTP resident expert; possibly there is some sign problem (transp. up implemented as down, or something like this) which, as the particular transposition in that piece is by half an octave, results in the octave shift you observed.

To get clean of any GTP problems, I started from scratch with the following parameters (same as above, but to summarize):

1) Up transposition by 6 semitones
2) Tuning DADGAD (bottom to top, isn't it?)
3) (no 7th string, but this is irrelevant as it is not used)

and I entered in the TAB staff the fretting indicated in the fret diagram. This is the result with Concert Pitch OFF:

NOT FOUND: 1

and this is the result with Concert Pitch ON:

NOT FOUND: 2

Note that the standard staff looks like the opposite of previous MuseScore examples:

*) with Concert Pitch OFF, notes (which are transposed) correspond to frets (example: top string is [transposed] D, fret 2 = E);

*) with Concert Pitch ON, notes (actual pitches) are shifted in rapport to frets (example: top string actually G#, fret 2 = A#).

Does it look correct? Can we cast it in bronze?

Thanks,

M.

P.S.: Of course, the screen shots above refer to the fix I am implementing, not to the current master; so, they will obviously not match what you'd find if you try the same with you MS copy.