Vocal score polyphonic MIDI import: how?
Its been a while since I´ve used Musescore,
ver. 2 now first time in use. My daily tool is a DAW but sometimes I need Musescore when someone needs to read music I produce - unfortunately this means my score writing skills are very limited.
I try to generate vocal scores, this includes 2 part harmony verse and 3 part chorus, I need
both one polyphonic score which includes all the voices (to demonstrate the general harmonic picture) and then separate scores for the each harmony. My starting point are MIDI files, also in this case 5 files (2 verse and 3 chorus), all are separate midi files, the lenght of the files are the same.
I manage to open the MIDI files, Musescore interpretes, at least in this case, nicely the scores.
The following questions have risen:
1) How to open separate MIDI files to create more than one voice, i.e. polyphonic score? Clicking voice number doesn´t seem to help. Note: all the harmony parts are in the separate MIDI files, when I open the next MIDI files, the previous part should stay.
2) If I have created a score for the first voice, how can I use the same page settings (headers etc.) for the other separate score sheets?
3) Although Musescore is great and the ver. 2 really improved, for the "ad hoc user" as me there are some UI things you could consider changing, one of these are the bar numbers. I know that some other people have asked of these too, and I know that adding bar number for the each bar SHOULD happen in Style-General-Numbers, but I don´t manage to add bar numbers, for some reason.. Please tell me how to do that? And because the bar numbers are very essential e.g. in the studio sessions, why don´t you put the bar number in the UI to somewhere more obvious place, e.g. you have bars and numbers mentioned in many other places in the UI but no bar numbers, the ad hoc gets frustrated when this most basic thing is so hard to find (easy, of course, for those who already know...), the easiest way would be by the mouse clicking bar or bar number and the the right mouse etc.
Well, this kind of dilemma, this time. Thank you for the advice in beforehand.
Harry
Comments
I'm not totally sure I understand, but if for some reason you have separate MIDI files ypu want to combine, you can open them separately then copy and paste their contents however you like.
As for bar numbers, by default they do appear in the standard place - at the beginning of each system. If you prefer a different arrangement eg, every bar, or evety 10 bars, say) simply use that dialog. If you are having a problem figuring something out about how to use the dialog, please post the specific score you are having problems with and describe what you are trying to do in more detail.
The reason bar numbers are not normally added directly is that this would be *much* more work for the user. If you wanted them at the beginning of each system, you'd have to click the first bar of every system yourself and add them, then every time the layout changed so that the number of bars on a system changed, you'd have to delete them all and add them back. That would be insane; no ine would put up with that. It is literally hundreds of times easier to simply specify an option to have them appear in the standard place - at the beginning of each system - or at a specified interval.
If you want them to appear just at certainly specially selected bars, those are called rehearsal marks, and they can be added from the Text palette; see the appropriate section of the Handbook. You can also force a regular measure number to appear in any measure via Measure Properties, which is in the right click menu.
1) I think by "voices" you mean "vocal parts," and not Voices . Open the MIDI files (in their separate tabs), then in one of them press [i] to open the Instruments dialog and add as many vocal parts as you need, then simply copy and paste from one score to another.
2) Once you have created the main score, you can extract the parts , and then for any Style/Page Settings changes to one part, you will have the option to automatically apply the same to the other parts.
3) I'm not sure I understand your problem—you found the right place. To get numbers to display on every measure, for example, you would select the radio button for "Interval" and then enter "1". I'm also not sure I understand your suggestion for an easier way to access these controls: "the easiest way would be by the mouse clicking bar or bar number and the the right mouse etc." Can you go into a little more detail? It might be a very reasonable idea.
I hope I've been able to help. If I've misunderstood your needs at all, please don't hesitate to ask more questions.
In reply to 1) I think by "voices" you by Isaac Weiss
Great help! Thank you for the ultra quick replies.
A few things has remained a bit unclear:
1. Musescore (MS) seems to add strange pause marks to the score, see the file example attached. Is there a way to get rid of all of them once or do I have to edit every single bar?
2. One general question/comment concerning the MIDI-MS conversion: few years back I asked if MS could make some kind of "filtered" conversion, by that I mean finetuning the level of conversion, the problem exist when someone uses MIDI information as a base of the computer aided scoring, which happens e.g. in my case. Namely, if you play a part by piano, despite the possible quantitizing, in longer piece some note values which are intented to be the same lenght are not indentical (the human factor, how you play e.g. piano), which means that notation program interpretes some of the same-intended note lenghts/pause lenghts mathematically differently, longer or shorter what intended. This causes in worst case totally unreadable score picture. "Filtering" (or maybe better "tuning") means the option to adjust the mathematical algorithm, finetuning of the precision how the MS intrepretes the played (=MIDI) information. Sometimes "more robust" gives a better end result, adding some details can be easier than re-editing the whole score picture, 40 % of note and pause lenghts (in worst case).
In my todays present example the MS interpretation of the MIDI information is quite readable, not any huge problems - but maybe those strange looking pause marks are derived from the challenge described above.
3. For some reason, if I have two MIDI files, which are exactly the same lenght, the same among of notes (just different harmony parts) sometimes, MS converts those files in the way where the division of bars in the rows is different.
Everyone knows that if I have group of singers, everyone has his/her part, when they/producer communicates, it helps a lot if they find the same bar number from the same page/point in the paper in their scores. MS lets to make new devisions of bars, but leads the situation where there are in many cases just one bar left in the whole row. If there is a way to make the division of the bars in better way, I´d like to know.
3. After creating 3-part vocal score I tried to edit the label on the left. When I activate the text by the mouse clicking, an edit window appears to the upper right cornet - but the edit window is really strange, my guess is that part of the problem is the translations (I have the Finnish version of the MS ver.2). The default labels for each of the harmony parts are also strange. Quickest way to edit those?
P.s. Because I´m not a native English speaker, I apologize in beforehand that some of my questions are obviously not ideally expressed - so far you have got quite well what I mean.
Harry
In reply to Great help! Thank you for the by Harry_
I guess by "strange pause marks", you mean the rests. These are correct, since your score uses multiple voices. The way to not have the rests is to not use multiple voices. When you import the MIDI file, there is an option to control how voices are handled. If you are sure they should not be needed, just turn off multiple voice support. Notes that overlap - which normally require multiple voices - will be altered so as to fit in a single voice.
The same MIDI import panel has other options which can help with regard to your point 2). If you continue to have problems, please post the MIDI file in question and describe in more detail what the problem is.
For 3), I guess you mean the staff names? They are edited by right clicking and choosing "Staff Properties". There is a long and short name; the long name is used on the first system, the short on subsequent systems.
In reply to I guess by "strange pause by Marc Sabatella
No, if you look the file I attached, it wasn´t polyphonic but example of the solo verse, normal pause marks are of course ok but for some reason MS puts rests "all over", even prints notes and rests which are overlapping. This can not be adequate. H.
In reply to No, if you look the file I by Harry_
Your score *does* make use of multiple voices. For instance, in the second measure, the "F" starts before the "A" has finished sounding. The only way to represent that in standfard music notation is to use multiple voices, so that is what MuseScore is doing, and that is why there are so many rests - MuseScore is correctly showing each voice as being complete, containing the full fur beats per measure.
As I said, most likely, your original MIDI file had notes that were overlapping, and that is why MuseScore represented it using multiple voices. If you don't want multiple voices, you need to tell MuseScore that, and it will alter the timings of your notes so they don't overlap.
In reply to Your score *does* make use of by Marc Sabatella
Marc, OK, sounds logical. But I have obviously missed something, I don´t see MIDI import parameters when I open a new file - when I use MIDI files, I just use "open" (new) command, there aren´t any parameters for the MIDI. (I refer to your post " When you import the MIDI file, there is an option to control how voices are handled"). The MS menu could perhaps include option "import MIDI", now the only import command is "import PDF".
Only place I found some MIDI import parameters are in the MS "settings->import", but only parameter where define the shortest MIDI-note converted. Therefore I dare to ask, in which menu in the MS can you control the MIDI import overlapping notes?
In reply to Marc, OK, sounds logical. by Harry_
See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/midi-import —all the controls appear at the bottom of the window when you've imported a MIDI file.
In reply to Marc, OK, sounds logical. by Harry_
This assumes, of course, you have a relatively recent version of MuseScore - 2.0 or later.
In reply to This assumes, of course, you by Marc Sabatella
I wondered that as well, but the OP was mentioning MS 2, and the MSCZ file he attached is for v2.
In reply to I wondered that as well, but by schepers
Great, I haven´t had time to look the result in very detailed, yet, but changing the parameter "max voices" to 1 clears (simplifies) the note picture, I presume this is the correct tweaking.
In one day I´ve made huge progress in my vocal scoring/session preparation,
MS 2 and this forum is unbelievable helpful, thank you! Harry
In reply to Great, I haven´t had time to by Harry_
You're very welcome! Just keep the questions coming. ;-)
In reply to You're very welcome! Just by Isaac Weiss
I´m almost there - in the final editing stage of the current project I noticed that I don´t handle one very basic MS note editing feature, for some reason I´m stuck with this in spite of the manual.
Most likely the case just reveals that I should spend more time with the manual. Yes, I ashamed...
I´ve attached an example: in the bar # 95 I try to change some notes, MS added a rest during the editing process in the beginning of the bar, the rests (which souldn´t be there) stays although I change the value of the first note Ab from the quarter to a half note - MS just deletes (!) the next G-note.
Why the rest seems to be "fixed", don´t the MS understand that increasing the note values to 4/4, the rests should disappear, not the notes - of course the MS calculates the total not values of the bar but you should be able to delete (or MS should delete the rests) the rest once the time signature and the note values match. Choosing the rest and delete seems not be possible.
Obviously there´s some bigger wisdom behind this but right now I can´t find it.
How to get sense to this editing issue? H.
In reply to I´m almost there - in the by Harry_
Why would you expect that lengthening a note on beat 2 would change anything that came *before* that note? That would be illogical. Lengthening a note will swallow up notes or rests that come *after* the note you lengthen, but lengthening a note doesn't move it earlier in time - it just lengthens it. if you want to move the note earlier in time - whether to beat 1, or to some other measure entirely - tht ha nothing to do with changing its length. You need to move the note: cut and paste will do it, or you can just re-enter the note on the desired beat.
BTW, in general, it's hard to help given only a picture. We normally need the actual score and precise steps to reproduce the probolem you are seeing, Then we can better understand what the misunderstanding is, or, if there really is some sort of bug in MuseScore.
In reply to Why would you expect that by Marc Sabatella
"Why would you expect that lengthening a note on beat 2 would change anything that came *before* that note? That would be illogical"
Well, yes, but as I stated, my starting point was not editing a bar including rest(s) in the beginning of the bar. MS added the rests when I was doing changes to the bar notes. Then suddenly it didn't allow to get rid of the rests, whatever I tried.
Obviosly I didn't (don't) have skills to do the right move, but anyway, this is user feedback and maybe tells something (not only about the user) but also about the intuitivity of the UI (which may experienced user hard to see), and which may be helpful when developing the software.
In reply to "Why would you expect that by Harry_
The rests would be "added" only if you deleted whatever was there before - a different rest, or a note. If it didn't do that, then the time positions of the subsequent notes would change. And MuseScore will not change the time positions of notes unless you ask it to. So, deleting a note replaces it with rests to take up the space, so that the subsequent notes stay in the same timer position.
This is a crucial fact to understand about MuseScore, then. MuseScore always strives to change *only* what you ask it to, and nothing else. When you delete a note, you aren't asking MuseScore to also move some undetermined number of notes earlier, so it doesn't presume to do so. If you want to move a note earlier, you ask MuseScore to move it earlier (eg, cut and paste). But moving a note earlier does not change its duration - if you want to lengthen it, you ask MuseScore to do so.
So again, MuseScore strives to do *what you ask it to*, making only whatever minimal number of adjsutments are necessary to prevent other notes from being affected more than necessary. Deleting a note necessitates replacing it with rests to avoid affecting other notes, and lengthening a note necessitates "eating" the notes or rests to avoid affecting any other notes beyond that.
In reply to The rests would be "added" by Marc Sabatella
Obviously I have trouble understanding the feature/logic you describe above. I dear to presume that I´m not the only one (or the last one), who has difficulties exactly in this point.
In broader perspective I see this a typical "beginner/diletant problem", many sophisticated software (or gadget or theories or systems ) include the "inner logic", most natural and the only correct or logical ones for the experts, but sometimes partly strange and unnatural from the diletant point of view.
There are two ways to response this challenge. First one is the "old world" way: "this is how it goes, these are the laws and principles in this micro universe, this is the right way to do it, better learn it fast." The second one I call "modern world" way: the major pitfalls of the logic and the UI have been identified during the development process, often using the "layman" focus groups, then the system developer group has created "shorcuts" or "walking sticks" for the beginners, which follow the "ordinary world" laws, which the beginner can use until he/she has reached more advanced level.
Analogous for this approach are e.g. the computer manuals which have two versions: "shorcut to the major functions" and "detailed manual for the advanced users".
In this spesific case the "walking stick" could be "temporary edit mode" option, e.g. in the MS settings, where you could change/simplify (in experts eyes "make it function in the wrong way) the MS logic in the way that you can edit notes and rests inside the bar in the "temporary mode", e.g. delete notes and the MS won´t add any rest or other notes, the edited bar could blink and warn the user that because the "temporary edit mode" the content of the bar don´t follow the time signatures, the blinking could stop when the bar time content matches to the time signature, you could also add and delete rests anywhere inside the bar.
I understand that the resources for the MS development are limited and you can´t take in to account all the possible pitfalls or "stupid user needs". But if you analyze, lets say, 5 most common beginner pitfalls and create "walking sticks" for those, which the user can utilize until he/she learns the "correct way", this would help many MS ad hoc users.
Finally, in spite of the above, the bottom line "essence" is 1) the MS exists, its great, it helps us to document and create music, 2) all we user debt for developers for their unbelievable contribution, our greatest gratitude I´m the last person who wants to question this fact. The above is just one user feedback, which may include some aspects useful in the further development. H.
In reply to Obviously I have trouble by Harry_
All I can do is suggest you spend a little time playing around with note entry. Read the Handbook, check out the tutorial videos, maybe buy my book if you're feeling it. Once you "get it", it becomes second nature and you'd never want it any other way.