Anyway, it has always been this way probably to allow having different key sigs across staves; admittedly it is not often needed, but when needed, there is no other way, I think.
I did wonder beforehand - I think it should apply to all staves by default, but there should be the option to override it. Any suggestions how it could be done?
As I mentioned, in 2.0, there is already the option to override and apply to all staffs, by using ctel-drag. I might prefer it be the other way around - default is to apply to all, crrl- drag in the rare cases where you need different key sigs for different staves. Note that transposing instruments aren't exceptions to this. I'd expect an assign to all operation to automatically transposed as appropriate, regardless of which way was the default. Only truly polytonal music would actually need different key sigs. And even then, I personally would be more likely to write that with no key signtures at all (the topic of another issue).
But in any case, it seems clear 2.0 is already going to be a huge improvement here, so I'm not complaining.
Not sure if this has been resolved, but maybe a good fix would be to have a check box in the Key Signatures window for "apply to only one staff". Set the default to apply the change to all staves unless the box is checked.
fixed in r4843. Default now is that a drop is applied to all staves. Ctrl+drop applies only to the current staff.
I am not entirely happy with this as for me it is "unexpected gui behaviour".
I'm curious - what do you find unexpected about it? Time signatures work that way, don't they? That is, dragging a time signature to one staff affects them all by default. Same with double bars and repeats, same with adding stretch, etc. This is exactly what I think most people would expect for key signatures as well.
Time signatures must be the same for all staves. As this is a limitation of MuseScore it has to be enforced in the gui.
Key signatures can be different for every staff. My naive understanding of key signatures is that they allow to write less sharps and flats. But you convinced me that different keys at the same time do not make sense (and would be confusing and hard to read).
Different keys at the same time might do sense: in music dating from before the establishment of tonality, it occurs (not very often, granted, but not very exceptionally either) to have different voices with different keys (please remind that pre-tonal music covers a larger time span than tonal and post-tonal music).
So, the possibility to have different keys across different staves should stay; as it is not very frequent anyway, having it as a non-default behaviour is fine.
I would add that in both genres, the need for different parts to occasionally have different key signatures simultaneously would probably be no more common than the need to occasionally have different time signatures simultaneously. Definitely the exception, not the rule.
One situation where I currently do need to have different key signatures is for non-tonal music for transposing instruments (which describes much of what I write). In this type of music, you basically never want to see a key signature. Because MuseScore doesn't currently support the idea of an "open" key signature (one that remains devoid of flats or sharps regardless of instrument transposition), I enter a concert pitch key signature of Bb for Bb instruments, Eb for Eb instruments, etc, so that when transposed, they all read as "C". But that's just a workaround that I hope won't be necessary forever.
Ctrl-drag doesn't work for me. Drag, ctrl-drag, shift-drag, alt-drag all apply the key change to one staff only. This is extremely undesirable behavior for writing orchestra or band music that has lots of parts.
That feature is only in the trunk - the builds for the experimental next major version - which isn't really stable enough for serious work anyhow. But it's coming.
Comments
Think it was posted before (can't find the issue - just a post ) and fixed, but think it's now a regression.
Isn't this "by design"? An odd design, I'll admit, but 2.0 has a facility (ctrl-drag?) to apply to all.
I think IT IS by design.
Anyway, it has always been this way probably to allow having different key sigs across staves; admittedly it is not often needed, but when needed, there is no other way, I think.
M.
I too am sure it is by design and should perhaps be extended but not removed.
Regards,
Thanks everyone.
I did wonder beforehand - I think it should apply to all staves by default, but there should be the option to override it. Any suggestions how it could be done?
As I mentioned, in 2.0, there is already the option to override and apply to all staffs, by using ctel-drag. I might prefer it be the other way around - default is to apply to all, crrl- drag in the rare cases where you need different key sigs for different staves. Note that transposing instruments aren't exceptions to this. I'd expect an assign to all operation to automatically transposed as appropriate, regardless of which way was the default. Only truly polytonal music would actually need different key sigs. And even then, I personally would be more likely to write that with no key signtures at all (the topic of another issue).
But in any case, it seems clear 2.0 is already going to be a huge improvement here, so I'm not complaining.
I marked this bug : #9358: adding mid-score key signature should affect all staves by default as duplicate of that one.
Not sure if this has been resolved, but maybe a good fix would be to have a check box in the Key Signatures window for "apply to only one staff". Set the default to apply the change to all staves unless the box is checked.
fixed in r4843. Default now is that a drop is applied to all staves. Ctrl+drop applies only to the current staff.
I am not entirely happy with this as for me it is "unexpected gui behaviour".
I'm curious - what do you find unexpected about it? Time signatures work that way, don't they? That is, dragging a time signature to one staff affects them all by default. Same with double bars and repeats, same with adding stretch, etc. This is exactly what I think most people would expect for key signatures as well.
Time signatures must be the same for all staves. As this is a limitation of MuseScore it has to be enforced in the gui.
Key signatures can be different for every staff. My naive understanding of key signatures is that they allow to write less sharps and flats. But you convinced me that different keys at the same time do not make sense (and would be confusing and hard to read).
Different keys at the same time might do sense: in music dating from before the establishment of tonality, it occurs (not very often, granted, but not very exceptionally either) to have different voices with different keys (please remind that pre-tonal music covers a larger time span than tonal and post-tonal music).
So, the possibility to have different keys across different staves should stay; as it is not very frequent anyway, having it as a non-default behaviour is fine.
Thanks,
M.
I think it might be useful in more modern music also - poly-tonality.
I would add that in both genres, the need for different parts to occasionally have different key signatures simultaneously would probably be no more common than the need to occasionally have different time signatures simultaneously. Definitely the exception, not the rule.
One situation where I currently do need to have different key signatures is for non-tonal music for transposing instruments (which describes much of what I write). In this type of music, you basically never want to see a key signature. Because MuseScore doesn't currently support the idea of an "open" key signature (one that remains devoid of flats or sharps regardless of instrument transposition), I enter a concert pitch key signature of Bb for Bb instruments, Eb for Eb instruments, etc, so that when transposed, they all read as "C". But that's just a workaround that I hope won't be necessary forever.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Using MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build (4978) - Mac 10.6.8.
Confirmed. Behaviour is back to that of pre-4843: ctrl-drag to apply to all staves, drag to apply to a single staff.
Ctrl-drag doesn't work for me. Drag, ctrl-drag, shift-drag, alt-drag all apply the key change to one staff only. This is extremely undesirable behavior for writing orchestra or band music that has lots of parts.
That feature is only in the trunk - the builds for the experimental next major version - which isn't really stable enough for serious work anyhow. But it's coming.
Fixed 074ebfecfc
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.