Voice 2 whole-notes are not centered

• Jan 29, 2023 - 21:25

Enter a note in voice 1, time signature 4/4; then enter a voice 2 whole-note or whole-note rest -- it should be centered in the measure, but it will instead be left-justified. An unsatisfactory workaround is to snap the voice 2 note or rest to grid, which is not a pleasant task and may well have to be redone for all such measures after any further editing. Using MuseScore4.


In reply to by underquark

It's a standard practice -- especially for whole-bar rests (that's why I indicated 4/4 as the meter). MuseScore correctly centers whole-bar rests in voice 1 automatically. The other voices should line up with voice 1; otherwise the mixture of centered and un-centered ones looks terrible.

In reply to by nfn

"It's a standard practice"
Really? Then (having just picked a simple piano piece at random), why has this music publisher decided to "left-justify" the whole notes?:

As for the whole-bar rest, when you create Voice 2 it comes with a whole-bar rest already centred.

In reply to by underquark

> As for the whole-bar rest, when you create Voice 2 it comes with a whole-bar rest already centred.

That's what it should do, but it doesn't for me with MuseScore4:

File > New > Keyboards > Piano > Next > Time signature > C > Done.
Select top staff first rest.
Select Note Input mode.
Select Voice 2, whole note, rest.
Click on the top staff first rest.

Do you see the misalignment now?

I believe the issue in question is the difference between positioning of:

• Whole measure rests which are centered
Whole note rests which are left aligned

If you select the entire contents of a measure and delete, MuseScore give you a centered Whole Measure rest.
When you start with a blank score (in MuseScore 4) each measure contains one centered Whole Measure rest.

Not sure what the rule is in the context of separate voice or how MuseScore handles that. That said, in MS4 I added a whole note to voice 2 and deleted it: the result was a left aligned whole note rest symbol.

In reply to by scorster

Maybe an example will help (Bach WTC Book I Fugue 12 BWV 857/2, edited by Czerny, freely available at IMSLP):


Can you set the first measure of that example in MS4 (without any awkward workaround)? If so, please tell me how. If not, can this be reported as a bug?

In reply to by scorster

Thanks very much! That shows how to do the task in MS4. But when you say "a link to the Handbook", it turns out to be the MS3 handbook. I have not so far found this in the MS4 handbook -- is it included there? Is there any way to download an MS4 handbook as a pdf file? Or even an MS3 handbook as a pdf file? Finding this entry method in the MS3 or MS4 handbook seems very unnatural and unlikely when one is occupied in following the MS4 handbook instructions to enter Voice 2.

Also, the method itself is very unintuitive. Maybe the long row on the main menu giving note durations, voice numbers etc. could have a button marked "..." which, when clicked, reveals further such options (less commonly needed ones) including a whole-measure rest. Then the entry procedure would be much more intuitive -- a rather hidden combination of simultaneous keystrokes would not be needed.

In any case, why is a whole-measure rest handled differently depending on whether it's in voice 1 or in another voice? That can have no musical motivation and suggests to me that the scheme could be improved (simplified) in that respect. That strange key-combination seems like a patchwork way around a higher-level design weakness or oversight. These are just suggestions.

Finally, apologies for my topic, which should have been "Voice 2 whole-measure rests are not centered", or better "How to center Voice 2 whole-measure rests?".

In reply to by nfn

I think I agree on all your handbook comments

nfn worte> ...when you say "a link to the Handbook", it turns out to be the MS3 handbook. I have not so far found this in the MS4 handbook -- is it included there?

Sorry. I forgot to mention that I attempted to search for the full-measure rest in the v4 handbook. I found no such entry.

There is a v3 Handbook PDF at this link. On the righthand side of the page click the red PDF icon—but know that word around town is that the PDF is far out of date compared to the online v3 handbook. A real shame because the PDF much easier to search.

In reply to by scorster

Thanks very much for this and your previous reply. It might be good to point that omission out to the MS4 handbook editors.

Meanwhile, any response from you or anyone else to my further points about the method of entering a whole-measure rest would be welcome.

Also, I had earlier used the "snap to grid" workaround to center those rests, and wanted to say that it would be much easier to snap accurately if we could see a representation of the grid on the screen while we are working with it. I suppose that might in some cases require temporary magnification of the relevant portion of the screen. Again just a suggestion.

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