# Repeats (with voltas) and DS al Fine jump combined but not working. Help please.

• Jun 7, 2023 - 06:55

Question: I need some help trying to get this snippet of music to play as originally intended. So far I have been unable to do so. I have tried many variation including splitting measure 7 into two measures (one for repeat 3 and one for repeat 4), experimenting with different barline combinations, and experimenting with different repeat sequencing. I’m stuck. Help please.

See attached file for the PDF snippet, exported from MS4.

This scheme was found in a sheet music copy of Richard Holler’s Abraham, Martin and John – published in a Fake Book. I created this 10 bar ditty to test the sequencing (shorter than the published 34 bars).

Intent:
Play intro measure 1, then measures 2 through 6, twice.
Play measures 2 through 6 a 3rd time, then measure 7, continuing on to play measures 8 through 10.
Execute D.S. al Fine which should play measures 2 through 6, followed by measure 7, then done.

I can not seem to get this to work as intended. It plays through correctly (I think) through the 3rd pass and gets to the D.S. al Fine then restarts at measure 2 and plays measures 2 through 6, again, as intended. It then plays measure 7 through 10 and stops. It does not stop at the Fine. In other words the intended sequence breaks down in the last pass near the very end of the playing.

Measure 6 Properties: Play Count = 3

Entry sequence: Notes, repeat barlines, Voltas, measure 6 play count check for 3, then Segno, Fine, and D.S. al Fine.

Measure numbers set to each measure.

Added tempo of 250 b.p.m. to speed up the test playings.

Attachment Size
test complex reapeat & jump.pdf 49.48 KB

The volta's are not necessary, they can be deleted. But you can still leave the first volta for a clear hint to the musician, but then the repeat list must contain 1,2,3. Alternatively, you can use a simple text hint to play the piece three times without using a volta, just using the play count from measure 6.

Measure 6 properties: Play Count = 3 is correct and measure 6 must have an end repeat bar line.

Attached an example created with MuS 3.6.2 which follows your instructions:
Play intro measure 1, then measures 2 through 6, twice.
Play measures 2 through 6 a 3rd time, then measure 7, continuing on to play measures 8 through 10.
Execute D.S. al Fine which should play measures 2 through 6, followed by measure 7, then done.

The check box "Play repeats" of the property "D.S. al Fine" should not be set, otherwise after the jump to Segno the repetitions from 2 to 6 will also be performed three times.

Test it and then delete the volta and test it again. It works in both variants, the play count of bar 6 is decisive.

Attachment Size
ComplexRepeats.mscz 5.46 KB

This is still a bit of a puzzle for me. I think I would be better able to work with these tools if I better understood their properties. For example: I believe that one of the properties of a volta to skip the enclosed measures when it is not their turn to be played. If this is the case, then the volta's are not optional. Additionally, how are open ended volta's different from closed ones?

Another example: why does the playback cursor keep running on after encountering the Fine label, but the audio is cut off (so you don't hear the notes after the Fine label). I had expected the cursor to stop at the end of the Fine measure. I had been testing without audio (just using the playback cursor as an indication of the sequencing) and completely missed that the audio was cut off. I thought the playback sequence went to the end.

Another detail that would nice to know is are there any interactions between repeated measure sequences and DC/DS jump structures. Does one of these structures need to be entered first? Can the FINE label be enclosed within a closed volta?

Another question is: Is there a 'proper' way to structure a multi-part volta? What barlines do you use? Do you need closing repeat barlines on the second, third, or more optional endings for the repeated sections to force playback back to the nearest preceeding opening repeat barline?

I am afraid that I have exhausted part of the help manual trying to learn, but came to realize that the help manual does not seem to go to that level of detail.

Lots to learn. Thank-you again for your assistance.

Cliff

Dear Cliff, my nickname is HildeK, my fist name (male) is hidden in the 'K'. So, I am not 'Hilde'. :-). No problem at all!

Your question is quite complex. I don't know all. I recommend to use a structure which a human player can understand without thinking about the sequence for a long time. So, keep repeating sequences simple and sometimes it is better to unroll some of them.

> how are open ended volta's different from closed ones?
I'm not a professional, and so far I haven't found any functional difference between them. I think it's just about graphic aspects. The open second volte is to show the musician that the sequence continues normally afterwards.

> why does the playback cursor keep running on after encountering the Fine label, but the audio is cut off
I didn't found this in my example above. It is playing three times the repeat block, then continues to the last measure, performs the "D.S. al Fine" and jumps to m. 2. and finally plays without repeating again til 'Fine'. That is what I saw in my example.
Did you find a different behaviour?
Additionally there is a check box in the properties of the DS or DC instruction called 'play repeats', If you check it, then the repeat block is again played three times.

> interactions between repeated measure sequences and DC/DS
You don't have to pay attention to a sequence when you enter it. But I found some interactions when using DC or DS in a more complex volta structure. Again: keep it as simple as possible.

> Is there a 'proper' way to structure a multi-part volta?
It is 'proper' when it finally works as expected :-). And it is right when a musician understands it.
I attach two examples with a more complex and a highly complex structure. There you can see how to set the bar repeats and also check the settings in the repeat list of the Volta,
I think you won't see the 'Happy Birthday' on your score sheet ....

The last example shows how to insert a 'Fine' in the middle of a bar and that the sequence indication inside the Volta could also be any text.

Attachment Size
ExampleRepeats.mscz 5.85 KB
Crazy_Happy_Birthday.mscz 9.07 KB
DS al Fine_2b.mscz 14.06 KB