D. S. al coda

• Nov 7, 2023 - 20:18

Hi there,

I am struggling with D. S. al coda. I have 3 of them in the piece I am working on. The first 2 work exactly as expected but the 3rd one simply does not jump to the specified location. All 3 are supposed to jump to segno and the first 2 do, but the 3rd one just doesn't jump back to segno. I have the segno marker at the second line in the piece. After the 3rd jump back to segno, the pieces should stop after 5 measures and then skip to the last 3 measures of the piece. Note, the 3rd jump is supposed to play to the earliest To Coda in the piece, that is, the first 2 play from segno to a spot later in the piece than the third one. I don't know if this should matter.

Maybe there is some rule I am unaware of. Do you experienced MuseScore users recogtnize what I am doing wrong?

many thanks,

Peter

Comments

• Nov 7, 2023 - 21:06

Maybe there is some rule I am unaware of.

Normally. for complicated score roadmaps containing multiple segnos, codas, repeats, etc., the general rule is to attach your score, or some (abridged) version containing the pertinent jumps and markers.
Also, provide a clear explanation of how you would like it to play.
This will allow for detailed help.

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• Nov 7, 2023 - 22:31

ok. thanks. Fair enough.

I've attached a mockup version that shows the same behaviour I am seeing in the piece. What I expected was the following behviour:
1) 1st DS al coda at measure 28 - return to segno at measure 5
2) Play to end of measure 18
3) resume at measure 29
4) Play repeat from measure 31 to 38
5) at 2nd DS al coda on measure 38, return to segno at measure 5
6) play to end of measure 28
7) resume at measure 31
8) at 3rd DS al coda on measure 46 return to segno (this is where it does not return to segno)
9) play to the end of measure 10
10) resume at measure 47 and play to end

thanks for any thoughts

Peter

Attachment Size
Mockup version for Forum.mscz 22.37 KB

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• Nov 8, 2023 - 01:36

That's a real bare-bones mockup! Without any minimum musical/tonal structure, questions arise, like:
Looking at measures 9 -16 and measures 17 - 24 from your score (here in this picture):
same.png
It looks like a possible repeat, but without any musical notation, one cannot tell.
Also, it seems like you are trying to use codas as alternate endings.
Furthermore, in your "roadmap" step #7 - when you resume at measure 31 - you make no mention about the 31-to-38 repeat. (Normally repeats are not taken after a first pass through.)

Anyway, I took your score, numbered all the measures to make your "roadmap" easier to follow during playback, and copied your "roadmap" text into my score so you can follow along. I also consolidated some measures into the same line of music to make the voltas and jumps easier to spot (at the beginning and ends of lines).
Open the attachment and compare to your 10-step "roadmap' which I copied into my score. Follow the measure numbers (as described in your roadmap) during playback.

Attachment Size
Mockup 2.mscz 25.77 KB

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• Nov 8, 2023 - 19:16

Hi jm5stringer, first of all, thank you very much for taking the time to figure this out and give me a example score that works. The score now behaves exactly as I wanted it to. Sorry about the bare-bones nature of it. So I realise my approach was not correct. I used more DS al coda than the software was willing to respond to. I noticed that you took another approach using voltas instead of multiple DS al codas, in fact you only used one DS al coda.

  • You added a repeat from measure 5 to the end of 28 to accomplish the same thing as my first DS al coda
  • You added an open-ended volta at measure 19 with repeat list of 1 & 3 which appears to have the effect of playing measures 19 to 28 only on the first and third time through - I take it that the open-ended volta does not only apply to the measure where you placed it but also to each subsequent measure until it reaches the repeat sign.
  • And the close-ended volta seconda with repeat list of 2 on measures 29 and 30 has the effect of only playing those measures on the second time through
  • Finally, the DS at the end of measure 38 has the effect of playing from the segno to the end of the score but still allows the only DS al coda to function as it should.

This all shows that there are implicit rules about DS al coda that I broke but I'm not sure what they are. I didn't really understand how all these work from the repeats and jumps section in the online handbook but your tutorial has helped a lot. Can I take away from this that the final jump marker in a score should be a DS rather than a DS al coda? Is that why my third one didn't work? Many thanks again for your help!!

Peter

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• Nov 8, 2023 - 22:48

You wrote:
I didn't really understand how all these work from the repeats and jumps section in the online handbook
The MuseScore 3 handbook (as compared to 4) has a broader explanation of Repeats and Jumps:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/repeats-and-jumps

You wrote:
... in fact you only used one DS al coda.
Yes, a "coda" (meaning "tail") normally signals an ending section.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coda_(music)
A "To coda" is used to exit from within a repeated section (like at meas. 10 in my score) to jump to the ending section denoted by the coda symbol (meas. 47).

You wrote:
You added a repeat from measure 5 to the end of 28 to accomplish the same thing as my first DS al coda
Yes, you were using jumps and codas for repeated sections. This required all the crazy label naming in the Properties panel -- 'coda2', 'coda', 'coda3', 'codab', 'codab3', 'codab2'.
I used repeats and voltas.

You wrote:
Finally, the DS at the end of measure 38 has the effect of playing from the segno to the end of the score but still allows the only DS al coda to function as it should.

The D.S. at the end of m36 allows for the playing from the segno at m5, through the #3 volta, all the way to that D.S. al Coda in m46. Then the D.S. al Coda at m46 returns to the segno at m5 and honors the 'To Coda" at m10.
Note: Jumps are taken only after all simple repeats in the section are played through. That's why the "To Coda" is not honored the very first time m10 is played. It would be a very short piece were that to happen.

You wrote:
Can I take away from this that the final jump marker in a score should be a DS rather than a DS al coda?

I'm not sure what you mean. In my score m46 has a D.S. al Coda. If m5 was actually the first measure, a D.C. al Coda would work -- with no need for a Segno symbol at the beginning.
Depending on the situation D.C. al Coda, D.C. al Fine, D.S. al Coda, D.S. al Fine -- each could be a final instruction.

You wrote:
Is that why my third one didn't work?

Here's a bewildering excerpt from your score:
excerpt.png
It shows 6 lines of music - and within that excerpt appear...
3 - "To Coda" jumps
1 - "D.S. al Coda" written directly underneath one of the "To Coda" jumps
2 - Coda symbols
You're lucky any of it worked at all... ;-)

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