Making tabulature (Questions about merging two staves into one, adding liked stave, transposing)
Hello,
I would like to make a tablature by my self but i have a few problems.
Yeah... I know i made really long topic but i will be very grateful if someone could read this and help me.
First of all I'm not familiar with music writing. I know absolute basic (or even less), so sorry for maybe stupid questions :P And sorry if there were already answers to them (i searched quite a bit but i didn't find), also sorry for my not perfect English, if you don't understand something please ask.
So... I want to make tablature of Chopins Nocturne Opus 55 No. 1 in F Minor because i did not find any on the internet (so if you would had a good one and provided me with it - the whole topic would be useless :D).
I want to achieve something like this:
//youtu.be/ec-fRC34MWQ
//youtu.be/Ktmf2RD_GO0
I have music sheets for it. One made by me (by rewriting it from pdf to MuseScore), other from MuseScore site:
//musescore.com/classicman/scores/131461
Of course the second one is much much better and i prefer it over my, but i have problems with working on it.
My first problem is that i can't combine two staves into one because it have more than one voice in one stave. When i'm trying to change for example voice 1 to 3 and 2 to 3 so there will be only voice 3 in that stave it make something like this 1->3 and 3->1 (same with second voice) so it only overturns(?) them and there are still 3 voices in that stave (only changed the notes with that voice). Also sometimes some weird things are happening with pauses.
So when i'm trying to copy paste one stave to another it overwrite some parts of it.
I watched this tutorial: //musescore.org/node/12345
Edit
I figured out how to change voice without interrupting other voices but... it don't want to work in this sheet. I click on a note from for example voice 2 -> select -> more... -> same voice then i'm trying to change all selected notes into voice 1 and nothing happens or only some of them changed (depending from what voice to what i'm trying to change), also it creating pauses everywhere.
My second question is about adding linked stave. I know how to do this in general but i don't know how to add linked stave with tablature to a standard stave for piano. In instrument option i can't change stave to tablature (or any other type of stave). In plette i can change it only for normal clefs, clicking on TAB do not change anything.
Is there any other way to make linked stave with tablature to existing piano stave? Other than copying whole sheet and pasting it to a new one?
By the way there is a bug, second stave actually is bass clef not treble - it displays wrong.
Last question is about transposing. I can't play it in original key (it is to low for guitar in some parts). The guy from second video said in the description that he "Transposed to A minor from the original F". How i can do this in MuseScore? I don't see option "F minor/A minor" in transposing.
Also I have feeling that treble and bass clef are transposed differently in those arrangement. Am i right?
Thanks for every response! Cheers!
Comments
Hello,
I think you can not imagine the difficulty of the enterprise to which you are attacking: specifically for this piece by Chopin.
It takes a strong technical and musical background to reach an arrangement (this is what we are talking about) for guitar, playable and successful. And besides, as I do not know your skills in this area, it is difficult to be precise (well, I see therefore you wrote: "First of all I'm not familiar with music writing." )
So, without wanting to discourage you, the task becomes very difficult (as this step), I fear.
For example, it is impossible to copy the left hand of the piano as such for the guitar. So you have to do choices, sacrificing some notes (but not too much ...)
Furthermore, there too many questions in a single message. Better to split them for better target and respond clearly.
For now, I simply made two steps.
From the score on musescore.com, I changed the instrument (in Staff properties -> Instrument change: so, piano for guitar), changed the clefs, and changed the octave of the first staff. And finally, I transposed in Am (in Notes -> Transpose): Nocturne_Opus_55_No._1__in_F_Minor A.mscz
As you can see, I have kept the two separate staves from each other. Switch to a single staff? Again, we did go in the area of the arrangement. So, questions of Implode-Explode (I believe you mentioned this point, but no sure, by now, because you have edited your message) or other copy-paste of voices, will never solve the fundamental problem that you are facing.
About the linked staff tablature, I think it is not helpful at this step (you can nevertheless ask with pleasure in another context). Because, first of all, there is so much work to do to make this score playable for guitar ...
I really think the better advice is to get this score (it is probably published for guitar, I have not checked, though), see the work arrangement performed, and inspire you to it afterwards.
And again, start with something abordable, really more abordable.
In reply to Hello, I think you can not by cadiz1
Thank You very much!
Well, a had a plan to support myself in that challenge with posted videos so i would have some impression of final arrangement :P I know that i can not simply copy everything from piano arrangement.
Question about voices was rather about technical way to do it in MuseScore. I have problem with working with them in Musescore so i prefer working on stave with only one voice in it, and i don't know how to change them.
But I'm still curious how did you changed octave and transposed in Am? Could you write what did you checked in a window of transposition? Or send screenshot? I'm trying to do it by myself but it do not work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
In reply to Thank You very much! Well, a by Gumaa
1) About change octave: select all the first staff (ie: select the first measure -> Ctrl+ Shift + End), and then do: Ctrl + arrow Down.
Or/also in Transpose: by interval (octave/Down)
2) About transpose (Notes -> Transpose ), and then see the image below (by key/closest -> dropdown list -> C major/A minor -> Ok)
![transpose.jpg]( "transpose.jpg")
3) About voices, please share the score, mention the involved measures, and what you want exactly reach (I see, but with a score, it's more easy to be precise)
In reply to 1) About change octave: by cadiz1
Ohh i see. I almost did it right before :D
About voices... Let's assume for example that i want to merge voice 1 and 2 into one voice.
- I can't simply exchange voice 1-2 cause it make it also in reverse.
- I tried select all notes from second voice (
right click on any green note -> select -> more... -> same voice) and change them to first voice (by clicking on number one or by shortcutctrl+alt+1) but it actually changed like few notes.Why some notes don't want to change voice?
I don't know in what sharing score could help because it is same score we both have :P But i changed voices 1->4 (by selecting voice 1 as mentioned before) to clearly show whats the problem. There is still many notes in voice 1 and i can't change them into other voices even singly selecting them. Is this a bug or i need do something with this sheet before changing voices? In other sheets this method worked just fine.
In reply to Ohh i see. I almost did it by Gumaa
At this step, I do not see why you definitely want to change the voice of certain notes in this score. Is this really the priority now?
In all cases, this is not possible with the method you describe (right-click green note, etc.)
Because the notes must be of the same duration. This is not the case at all in this piece. This is not a bug, it is simply to prevent that the contents (rhythmic, especially) of each voice will not upset.
![ex1.jpg]( "ex1.jpg")
![ex2.jpg]( "ex2.jpg")
Look at this example.
With four quarter notes in each voice, the exchange (with your method) works:
With a dotted quarter note + eighth note, and two quarter notes (in Voice 2), it does not work (or incompletely)
![ex3.jpg]( "ex3.jpg")
![ex4.jpg]( "ex4.jpg")
It is possible by exporting the file in the MIDI format (then reducing in one voice the score via the Import panel). But in this case, this will create difficulties of a different order.
And again, I would like to know where you are in your work (hence the need to join the score at time T where you are - not the "original one" - and then what want to do, for a good assistance, as far as possible, and with the limits I described previously)
For the tablature, I forgot: since I changed the instrument, piano for guitar (previous post, first step), it is easy to add a linked Tab staff in the Instruments dialog box (shortcut: "I" key)
In reply to At this step, I do not see by cadiz1
Well, maybe not priority but it would be nice to see how the both staves combine in one tablature just to have a look or maybe start from that point slowly shaping this out. Also i don't like the feeling that i don't know how to make something, in this case - how to make whole stave in one voice :D Now I know so thank you very much!
Yeah, I noticed that i can add linked staff. But is it normal that i can link it only to the first stave? The treble one? Even if i choose second stave (bass) and press add linked stave it still creates stave linked to the first one.
Again thank you for your help!
In reply to Well, maybe not priority but by Gumaa
"how the both staves combine in one tablature just to have a look"
![Sans titre 1.jpg]( "Sans titre 1.jpg")
Maybe I misunderstand a point. But having two voices in a standard staff does not prevent a good result when you change the staff type, so for a Tab staff (image below). Did I miss something?
About the linked staff: "Even if i choose second stave (bass) and press add linked stave it still creates stave linked to the first one."
This may seem like an unexpected result, indeed. Is this a bug? Maybe (seems), and if this is not a bug, I do not recall the reason(s), if reasons, for this behavior presently.
Especially as it works as expected by simply adding non linked staves, and by copying and pasting one to the other.
It works except in this score!
Indeed, there is an impediment in measures 13 and 30 (perhaps other, I have not taken the time to check everything, when why and how, involving irregular divisions, n-olets, something like that), and so, which do not allow to copy-paste the first staff.
The second staff works fine.
So, instead of rectifying the offending measures, I acted otherwise. By adding another instrument (Guitar) -> then copy-paste the second staff, first instrument, in the new instrument -> Remove the second staff, first instrument -> finally, add a linked Tab staff to each instrument.
With the result: Nocturne_Opus_55_No._1__in_F_Minor C.mscz
In reply to "how the both staves combine by cadiz1
I did the same adding another instrument.
But i don't understand first part about combining staves :P I did this just to see how this two staves would look like in one TAB stave. I know it isn't good result.
In reply to I did the same adding another by Gumaa
Technically, it's is possible from scratch.
For example: two Tab staves (all voice 1 in the first staff, and combination of some voices (3) in the second staff): example.mscz
By selecting the first measure second staff, then go to: Edit -> Voices -> Exchange Voice1-Voice 4, you obtain: example1.mscz Ie, there is notes in all voices except the 1.
So, now it is possible to copy-paste the first staff (in Voice 1 precisely) into the second one.
Result: example2.mscz
For a final result (as you wish, if I well understand your purpose):
example3.mscz
The problem is that the case is much more complicated with the original file, changed in Tabs: Nocturne_Opus_55_No._1__in_F_Minor TABS.mscz
If it is possible, in the same way, in the staff 2 to change, for example, Voice 1 into Voice4, so:
Nocturne_Opus_55_No._1__in_F_Minor TABS 2.mscz
However, the staff 1 has difficulties (as already said) which prevent the same end result.
First, because it remains some notes in voice 2 (which will override those of the second staff - of course, we can modify the measures concerned for only obtain Voice 1, but it's past time). And especially because the copy and paste is not possible for the reasons already mentioned (n-tuplets, irregular divisions).
This is specific to that file. But I hope you have understood the process now.
In reply to Technically, it's is possible by cadiz1
Yes, that was my purpose, thank You very much!
I made tabs yesterday by converting it into midi file to get one voice, but yeah i didn't noticed that there is 4th voice empty in this file and i could use it that way.
So i think thats all for now ^^ The rest is about arrangement so there is nothing to ask here i think :D
Cheers!