Help With Voices
I'm working on a project for Music Theory and I'm having trouble getting things to work right. I'm working on a piano piece, trying to have a whole note C and G chord while an E is played as a dotted half note on beat 2. (Not exactly what I'm doing but I can't find an easy way to explain it, nor do I know what to look for here on the forums.)
I tried using another voice (the 1 2 3 4 in different colors at the top), but then I get a bunch of rests on top of everything. I tried to find a way to hide rests for that layer, but I can't find an option for that or even an option that deals with voices in general. Please help!
Comments
Basically I'm trying to have multiple note values on the same beat in the same staff.
In reply to Basically I'm trying to have by Darktangent
Read Voices and see http://musescore.org/en/node/14159#comment-57872
In the future, it's better to keep your question in one thread and not comment on others if they are not related to your issue.
In reply to Read Voices and see by [DELETED] 5
Sorry, I thought it was directly related.
If I am understanding you correctly, you want a whole note on beat one in one voice, then a dotted half note on beat two in another voice. Indeed, "voices" are the feature to use for this. Not sure what you mean anout this creating "extra" rests, though. If you enter this as described, you will have one and only one rest in the measure - the absolutley necessary rest on beat ne i the second voice. Without that rest, people wouldn't know when to co e in with the chord on beat two. So there is nothing extra nothing to delete or hide.
If you are seeing something other than this one necssary rest, posting a sample score would help, along with specific descriptions to reproduce (eg, "start by clicking a measure, then click N, then hit 7 for whole note, then type C followed by shift-G, then click voice 2, then hit 5 for quarter note, then 0 for the rest, then 6 followed by "." for the dotted half, then E", which is how I'd enter what I think you are describing).
In reply to If I am understanding you by Marc Sabatella
About the extra rests: For instance, if you have a dotted half note come in on beat 2 (4/4) and then you have an eighth note on the and of four in another voice, you will get a quarter rest and dotted half rest overlapping (two sets of rests for two different voices). I think you can right click on the rests of one of the voices and hide them all though.
In reply to About the extra rests: For by Darktangent
That's correct behavior. Again, if a voice enters part way through the measure, showng the rests is the normal and proper way to show what beat the note enters on. There are certain special case scenarios where other aspects of what is going on in the music make it so that it is permissible to not show the rests, and MuseScore provides that facility (right click, set invisible), but the example you describe is not one of those cases. Allowing that single eighth note to be the one thing visible in that voice, with nothing else happening on the "and" of four for that note to align with, would be incorrect notation.
In reply to That's correct behavior. by Marc Sabatella
As it is right now, there is a quarter rest and dotted half rest overlaying eachother at the beginning of the measure, and a eighth rest in between the dotted half note and eighth note. There should only be one quarter rest at the beginning of the measure, as other rests are not needed since there is another note being played. This is a piano piece fyi.
In reply to As it is right now, there is by Darktangent
You need to double click one of the rests and nudge it up or donw as appropriate so they don't overlap, but unless there is something different about your example from what you are describing, all rests in both voices should be shown. Any voice that enters on a beat that has no corresponding notes in other voices must show all leading rests, or no one would know when to come in with that voice. If one voice consists of nothing but an entry on the "and" of four, you are supposed to show the leading rests (not with a dotted rest, but with a half rest, quarter rest, and eighth rest). Otherwise there is no way to be sure that the note is on the and of four.
In reply to You need to double click one by Marc Sabatella
Alright, Gotcha!
Thanks for the help (and the lesson in notation, lol)!
In reply to Alright, Gotcha! Thanks for by Darktangent
You're welcome! BTW, one more thing: 2.0, the rests will no longer overlap, so it won't be necessary to move rests by hand in situations like this. I'm realy looking forward to that.
Also, regarding the "special situations" where hiding rests is OK, there aren't any hard and fast rules I know of, as the published notatipn guides I have seen are a bit vague on the topic. I wonder if Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars" - which in the brief time since it was published is rapidly becoming the new standard in this field - offers any specifics?
However, based on my reading of the existing literature, the guidelines used by at least one major publisher for whom I did editing work, and examples posted and discussed here on the forums, maybe we can come up with a good set of guidelines. The topic certainly comes up often enough, and while I'm often the one advising against hiding rests (in part because I read music for a living and I am very much affected by poor notation practices), I seldom manage to be specific about the cases where it *is* generally permissible.
In general, rests are always shown: each voice should account for all beats. Some of the exceptions that seem to be accepted by at least some publishers include:
1. if a voice that ends somewhere in the first half of a measure and doesn't re-enter in the next, you may be able to omit the half measure rest at the end of the measure whee the voice stops, especially if there is a note at mid measure in another voice
2. the same can be true if a voice enters during the second half of a measure - you may be able to omit the half measure rest that starts the measure, especially if there is a note at mid measure in another voice
3. if a voice enters on a beat where another voice on the same staff has a note, you can omit the leading rests, since the vertical alignment of the entrance makes it clear where it falls rhythmically
4. in music that is mostly homophonic (all voices moving in the same rhyhm) but where one voice might have, for example two eighths while the others have quarters, you can notate most of the passage as a single voice but show just the eighths in a separate voice
Even in these situations, most publishers in my experience will *not* choose to actually hide rests unless they are extremely pressed for space. The only case where i,d say it is pretty much a given that you will want to hide rests is #4. For example, a passage that is four quarter note chords, but one of the "voices" has eighth notes on one of the beats. I'd say other than that, you are better off not omitting rests even when the above cases ight seem to apply, and you would have virtually every professionally printed edition of every piece Bach or Beethoven every wrote in agreement with this preference.
I'm sure there are other special situations as well; anyone else have any documented examples?
In reply to You're welcome! BTW, one by Marc Sabatella
Should have looked at my copy of Moonlight Sonata, it's a great example of this kind of thing.