Tone names

• Nov 12, 2019 - 07:36

I have set language in MuseScore to Swedish. In the settings menu, one can set the way note names are spelled (Format->Stil->Ackordsymboler->Notstavning). I have set it to Standard which should give me note names like A, Bb, B, C, C# etc, according to the first screen shot. I could also choose the German spelling (Tysk), giving me A, Bb, H, C, C# etc, according to the second screenshot. I prefer the standard one. This will make chord symbols transpose correctly. Transposing Am up one major second gives me Bm, not Hm. But the transposing tool insists using the German spelling for me, see third screenshot.

What MuseScore does here is, it spells note names according to what language I have set the whole gui to. Not according to the setting I chose in Format->Style->Chord symbols. I bet users prefer to set the gui language according to their own language and tone name spelling according to other things.

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In either setting chord symbols transpose, if they got recognized as such in the 1st place (best way to check is to enter them in lower case, when they turn into upper case, MuseScore properly recognized them)

In Swedish it seems the German spelling is used, H for B abd B for Bb, right? At least that key signature list in the transpose dialog indicates so.
Anyway, that transpose dialog's naming and the chord symbol spelling is independant of one another, the former follows your language setting, the latter the chord symbols style you picked.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

"Anyway, that transpose dialog's naming and the chord symbol spelling is independant of one another, the former follows your language setting, the latter the chord symbols style you picked."

Yes, that's the issue I want to report. Both should follow the chord symbol style I picked. The tone naming convention is far from consistent inside a language region. Swedish is mainly spoken in Sweden, but also in Finland. Tone naming conventions in Finland are slowly changing towards an English/US style, and it doesn't depend on whether you speak Finnish or Swedish in Finland. I'd like to have a Swedish gui in MuseScore, both for personal use and for my pupils, to whom I want to teach the English naming convention. MuseScore is an extremely powerful tool in music education, because every pupil can have it on their own computer. But I wish I could set up the correct naming convention for my teaching.

There's a plugin by Werner Schweer, Joachim Schmitz and Jörn Eichler, which writes tone names above the notes, and even this plugin manages to write the names according to my gui language setting and not according to the desired chord name style I picked. I tried to read through the plugin code, but couldn't find the exact spot where the code fetches the German tone names, which MuseScore connects to Swedish language setting.

In reply to by jotti

That is not an issue though. Key signatures are not chord symbols and are treated differently, one following the selected language, the other a style setting.
The key signature Bm is called Hm in the Swedish translation of MuseScore, that notename B is H in the Swedish translation of MuseScore. If you don't like that, use the English translation. It is not visible in the score anyhow, just a UI thing.
Whether you want to call the chord symbols with the same name being spelled Hm or Bm iin your scores is at your command, via that style setting.

That notenames plugin indeed picks on the translation you are using:

            case 19: text.text = qsTranslate("InspectorAmbitus", "B")   + text.text; break;

Translated here

Maybe a new translation/language setting is due, sv_FI ("Swedish (Finland)")? Only Transifex doesn't offer that currently, so we can't either. It does offer sv_SV though ("Swedish (Sweden)") along with plain sv ("Swedish"), which is the one we're currently using.

Then again you can take that difference as an opportunity to teach exactly that different to your pupils.

BTW: there's also the new notehed scheme, notenames inside the noteheads, might make up fir a nice teaching device and is also easier to handle than the notanames plugin, as those note heads change dynamically along with their pitch.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

My point is that it shouldn't be dependent on the language! In Finland and Sweden, there's an old school tradition, which follows the German note naming convention, and a newer generation, that follows a more international naming convention. The newer convention uses a shorter writing, like G G# A A# B C C# D and D Db C B Bb A Ab G (cromatic scale up and down). It can also use the pronunciation written out: G Giss A Aiss B C Ciss D and D Dess C B Bess A Ass G (the Swedish written out pronunciation uses double s, the Finnish one uses a single s). It won't help if MuseScore starts to support both sv_FI and sv_SV. It has nothing to do with that distinction.

In reply to by jotti

The spelling of notenames and key signature names is dependant on the language setting and its translations, this is by design.
If the translations is wrong or meanwhile outdated, fix it yourself, after having discussed this with the Swedish translators. There is no way to have both old and new school spelling in the same translation at the same time (and this is where an sv vs. sv_SV translation might help).

The setting of chord symbols is a per score setting and as such you're completly at command which to use.

With the notehead scheme you also have the choice spelling, International/German/Solfa/...

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Well, then text elements that are not strictly language dependent should not be a part of the language pack, but should be implemented differently by the coders.
To me, having the tone names "hard coded" into the language pack is a bit like having say the drumset mapping hard coded into the language pack. The comparison is clumsy, but I feel I fail all the time trying to explain the problem here.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

I think the main point of jotti is that while note names being language dependant has been correct up till now/a few years back; that statement is no longer true for Swedish.

Reality changed, so (s)he's making a plea to get MuseScore changed to be able to follow that reality. In Swedish, both the German and the English system are used. Expecting a user to change the language of the UI (which is still Swedish) is a bit of a drastic measure to take (especially assuming children learning music, which might not master those languages).

From that perspective Note Names already are not language specific; as you'd use English/German/Dutch note names. There is no reason for being able to choose the Chord Symbol system (without having to change UI language), but not choosing the matching note naming scheme.

Whether it's easily implementable.. that's a different question.

In reply to by jeetee

Chord Symbols are different from note names. as the latter show in score (only), the former in the UI (only).

If the translation needs to change to adjust to a different naming taking over for all (or at least the majority!) of Swedish (Sweden and Finland), then the translations need to get changed, this should get discussed amongst Swedish speaking users. I may be wrong but I do expect quite some disagreement there...

As a teacher (s)he should rather take this as an opportunity to teach both IMHO ;-)

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