A Template or Style for Modifying Page Settings after Creating a New Score.
I am using a Custom Template for all of my new scores but on occasion after finishing a piece, I find it looks better if I modify my Odd Page Margin setting to change them from my current default.
When I do that, I have to individually change the Odd Page Margin, followed by the Y Offset for the Title & Subtitle, and the height of the Vertical Frame to the values I determined will give the appearance of the same spacing with the altered Odd Page Margin.
Is there any way at present I could set up a Style to do this and just load it? I tried, but it appears the Vertical Frame Height isn’t something that can be saved as part of a Style unless I missed something.
When I load a test style I created after creating a new score with my Template, the Vertical Frame Height seems to be the only thing that doesn't get saved.
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer.
Comments
Format / Save Style and Format / Load Style are the commands you need, so I guess that's what you tried? Indeed, though, as the name suggests, this is about style settings, not properties of individual frames. If you want all vertical frames to have the new setting, be sure you hit the "set as style" button next to the control in the Inspector. But maybe what you really want is Music top margin, in Format / Style / Page? If you attach a sample score and describe what you are trying to do, we can understand and assist better.
In reply to Format / Save Style and… by Marc Sabatella
Marc:
Attached are three scores named Before, After and Changes, as well as a Style for those changes named Style.
The “Before” score was created using my template which is set up with a 10 mm Odd page margin and a 20 mm Even Page top margin. That places the elements Title, Subtitle, Lyricist and Composer where I like them as well as the music on pages 2, 3, 4, etc.
Often when work I on a score that ends up going to 3 pages, I may decide I want to change the top margin of page 3, so I do that by changing the Odd Page Top Margin at Format/Page Settings. When I do that, I end up with a score that looks like “After.”
My workaround has been to manually change the X-Offset for the Title and Subtitle and to change the Vertical Frame height since the placement of Lyricist & Composer, as well as the Tempo markings are related to that. I make those changes in the Inspector.
The result is the score I called “Changes” which is my attempt to achieve the same look on Page 1 that I had before changing the Odd Page Top Margin to effect changes on Page 3.
My attempt to save those changes as a Style so I can use it the next time I wish to change the Odd Page Top Margin without going those all of the separate steps is named “Style” and it is attached as well.
However, unless I am doing something wrong, my saved Style has no effect on the Vertical Frame Height, I assume because I see no way in the Inspector to “Set as Style” with the Vertical Frame Height.
Keep in mind I am making this change because I want to change the spacing of Page 3, 5, etc., but I can only do that by changing Page 1, (I think).
If I am correct that I can’t save the Vertical Frame Height as a Style element, could a future version of MuseScore 3 have settings for Odd Pages, Even Pages AND the Title Page as a separate page?
Regardless, thanks in advance for any help you can offer
In reply to Marc: Attached are three… by HuffNPuff
I think in order to understand your actual goal here, I need to see a score that actually has 3-5 pages, so I can understand the effect you actually desire it. And maybe more explanation of what the desired change is.
In reply to I think in order to… by Marc Sabatella
Marc:
Attached are revised versions of “Before”, “After” & “Changes” which have 4 pages of empty measures to hopefully illustrate the effect.
I’ll attempt to describe it better:
On a good day, most scores I create with MuseScore end up at two pages. Almost all are “Standards” with lyrics. My normal Template sets a 10 mm Top Margin for ODD pages and a 20 mm Top Margin for EVEN pages.
When the score is two pages, this spacing looks good (to me) because the “title page” elements naturally push down the music so the smaller 10 mm Top Margin on ODD pages versus the 20 mm Top Margin on EVEN pages gives the appearance of even Top Margins on both pages.
However, if the score has a 3rd (or 5th) page and I leave the ODD page Top Margin at 10 mm, the Top Margin on Page 3 looks different than the Top Margin on Page 2.
In order to “fix” this visual discrepancy, I change the ODD Page Top Margin from 10 mm to 20 mm and manually adjust the X-Offset for the Title and Subtitle and change the Vertical Frame height. Once that is completed, Page 1, 2 AND 3 have Top Margins that look the same.
My hope was to have some kind of Style I could save that I could use in these circumstances to “instantly” change the ODD Page Top Margin, Title & Subtitle X Offset positions and the Vertical Frame height.
As I mentioned before, the Vertical Frame Height does not seem to want to be saved as a Style. I don’t know if this is something that was omitted but that could easily be implemented. Or is having separate “Title Page” settings better and easier to implement since the 1st page is always different in layout to additional pages.
Or, am I missing something that is already available?
I hope this explanation helps!
In reply to Marc: Attached are revised… by HuffNPuff
There is indeed no style setting for the height of a vertical frame, because the appropriate height is completely dependent on its contents. There is, however, for the bottom gap. For what you describe, that seems far more appropriate. The contents of your frame aren't changing, so no reason to change its height (which has the side effect of changing the relative position of title and composer, surely that isn't actually desired?). You presumably just want to change the distance from the frame to the first system.
But also, since you say you want consistent top margins, I don't understand why you are using different settings. You say you want the "appearance" of equal top margins, so why not use actual equal top margins? Set page top margin the same for even and add, then set the Music top margin (in Format / Style / Page) however you like to set the actual position of that top staff on subsequent pages - even with the title, even with composer, or even with the top staff of the first page.
In reply to There is indeed no style… by Marc Sabatella
"But also, since you say you want consistent top margins, I don't understand why you are using different settings. You say you want the "appearance" of equal top margins, so why not use actual equal top margins? Set page top margin the same for even and add, then set the Music top margin (in Format / Style / Page) however you like to set the actual position of that top staff on subsequent pages - even with the title, even with composer, or even with the top staff of the first page."
That answer is very simple...I never realized I have been doing it all wrong all along.
I ran a few tests on some existing 3 page scores making the Odd & Even Top Margins equal and adjusting the default value for Music Top Margin and VOILA, perfection...
...but you knew that.
All I have to do now is fix my Template and I am set going forward.
Thanks so much for taking the time and setting me straight.
In reply to [quote]But also, since you… by HuffNPuff
No problem, glad you got it figured out!
In reply to No problem, glad you got it… by Marc Sabatella
One quick question:
When I attempt to change the settings of my Template to reflect having the same top margin for Odd & Even Pages, the change doesn't seem to "stick" when I try and use the Template.
The old setting was 20 mm for the Even Page Top Margin. In the Template I change it to 10 mm (to match the Odd Page setting) and save. When I then try and use the Template to create a new score, the new score has the old setting??
No matter what, I cannot get the new score created with the Template to show the revised setting.
The last attempt at creating a Template is attached as is a Test Score created with that Template which has reverted back to to the old settings for some reason I don't understand. There is presently NO style in Styles Folder so I don't understand what keeps changing that setting.
In reply to One quick comment: When I… by HuffNPuff
Works fine for me - I saved your template to my Templates folder, create a new score from it using File / New then selecting it in Custom Templates, and I get 10mm for the top margins of both even and odd.
I can confirm, though, the Test Score you posted does not have this setting.
In reply to Works fine for me - I saved… by Marc Sabatella
What am I doing wrong??
In reply to What am I doing wrong?? by HuffNPuff
Hard to say for sure, but the most plausible explanation is that you somehow mixed up your templates when you created that score.
In reply to Hard to say for sure, but… by Marc Sabatella
I'll try again but, I also tried the same thing and created a completely new Template and got the same result.
In reply to I'll try again but, I also… by HuffNPuff
Interestingly enough, I tried again but before I did, I deleted the path to the Style in Preferences.
When I created a new Score using the Template, it was as I wanted it so I tried the same thing again but before doing so, I recreated the path back to the Style Folder (which is empty) and it worked again.
I tried once more just to be sure and it seems to be fine.
So I GUESS for some reason it was picking up a Style someplace that was overwriting the Template?
Regardless, thanks again!