Bagpipes - is note range correct?
From what I’ve read, the bagpipe range is from G above middle-C to A an octave above and is written in D-major as the C and F are sharpened (I realise they tend to be tuned slightly sharp of concert pitch.) Musescore defaults to D-major but shows G in red as out of range and B an octave above as still in range. The Bagpipe Embellishments (in Version 2) are shown from G up to A, but these are in Concert Pitch and transpose up a tone to A up to B when placed into the D-major score. Can anyone explain why the permitted range seems to be a tone too high, please?
Comments
Which version of MuseScore?
I see that the Bagpipe in both 1.3 and 2.0 beta is set up as a transposing instrument which presumably is incorrect?
It could be this transposition which is throwing the range out.
Not being a piper myself I only have a passing knowledge of how they are played.
If you have better details on how Bagpipe should be notated, please open an Issue in the issue tracker - but you must be able to give precise details about how the instrument is played and notated in order for us to put this right.
In reply to Which version of MuseScore? I by ChurchOrganist
Bagpiper *are* transposing instruments, of a sort. They don't work the same as other transposing instruments in terms of how people traditionally notate for them, but many (most?) bagpipes do indeed sound in pitches other than how they are written. The wrinkle is, the can only play in one key, so they are always notated the same way, but then sound higher (usually, I think) than written. There are also different sizes of bagpipes, which probably explains discrepancies in reported range.
I've just told you everything I know, some of which may be wrong, so don't look to me for further clarification :-). But maybe that gives ammunition for further investigation.
In reply to Which version of MuseScore? I by ChurchOrganist
Unfortunately I don’t know more than I’ve read on the internet in the last few days! http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html seems to give a good explanation. I would guess the confusion arises because, as this page points out, the two sharpened notes are ‘obvious’ and so get referred to merely as C and F, meaning that a score can appear to be written in C-major (eg http://www.bdot-inc.com/corn-rigs.pdf) but needs a D-major key signature to ensure that the sound font plays the ‘C’ correctly as C-sharp and the ‘F’ as F-sharp (eg http://www.celticscores.com/sheet-music/502_A_Man%E2%80%99s_a_Man_For_a…). Consequently scores sometimes have the D-major key signature and sometimes omit it, but in both these examples of the same tune, the lowest note on the score is G and the highest is A. I suspect you’re correct in assuming it’s not really a transposing instrument.
I've now realised that of course when the score has a D-major key signature the playback pitch of the A is actually a G and the only way to get it right is to use the Concert Pitch C-major setting and accidentals all the way through - rather clumsy! In fact, the actual pitch of a bagpipe A is apparently slightly sharper than a B-flat, so a G is badly out.
In reply to Unfortunately I don’t know by jonga
Yes, if you're going to list the bagpipes as transposing instruments in the usual sense, they should be thought of as either Db or D instruments - sounding a step or so *higher* rather than *lower* than written. At least, that is my understanding.
In reply to Yes, if you're going to list by Marc Sabatella
... for the Great Highland Bagpipes (aka "The Pipes", i.e. the common, very noisy ones) but really somewhere in between. Smallpipes (smaller, quieter and a singer stands a chance of being heard alongside them) are often in a different key. Pipers don't usually bother to write down the sharps since the instrument is forced into notes approximating F# and C# and the concept of writing for it in different keys isn't really there since it is not a chromatic instrument. The pipes also only usually play on their own or with drums or with other pipes from the same band so tuning can differ. To further complicate matters there is evidence that the pipes have got a bit sharper over the past century or so, more so than the standard orchestral instruments.
Anyway, the range should allow G up to A (according to my #2 son and resident piper). Lots of good websites including this one for beginners: http://www.bagpipejourney.com/articles/finger_positions.shtml
In reply to Either Db or D... by underquark
Pipes in a pipe band are tuned to the same pitch so there is nothing really complicated about it. In a good pipe band tuning will not differ once the pipes are properly blown in. In a pipe band the ultimate goal is overall unison of sound.
Writing in different keys is not an option so we dazzle people with fantastic melodic and rhythmic lines in the phrasing... Over and over and over again.
"More so than the standard orchestral instruments..." Bagpipes and the term orchestral do not go together at all. Let it go. That being said there are many fantastic arrangements where pipes are played versus brass and reed, fiddle, piano, guitars, accordions, banjos (and the list goes on) to great effect.
If you work at it you can make it happen.
Highland Piper with 25 years under my belt here.
Well, yes. Bagpipes are possibly notated slightly differently from other instruments as it basically plays a whole 9 notes, an octave plus one. It is a mixolydian scale which basically makes most who are unaccustomed (and certain finicky people with university degrees in music) lose their minds. The Low A, herewith to be known as "The Tonic" usually tunes at anywhere from mid 470s to mid 480s Hz. This effect is known as "the creep". The Tone Creep has been happening for a very long time and certainly more now that pipe makers are seemingly more and more on the same page in terms of tools used, dimensions for various parts and understanding of the effects of brighter tone.
If you really want to get your head around it, no matter what instrument you play, may I suggest you have a gander at this article online. http://www.hotpipes.com/tuning.html
The fact of the matter is that Highland Bagpipes, as most types of pipes, developed out of a tradition of folk song and often dance, and so the scales will not always be exactly similar to the equal tempered sounds that came along later in orchestral instruments.