Piccolo Clarinet issue
According to everything you need to know about clarinets, the piccolo is described as Ab clarinet with a range of E below the staff to the G approximately three octaves above. Transposing the note E is equivalent to the note C on a piano. The Piccolo Clarinet in Musescore doesn't match that in the background of the instruments properties, it says the transposition is a minor 6th. Going by Everything about clarinets, it is actually pitched at a minor third above. Any ideas why this instrument is wrong in Musescore? To get around the issue i have set up my Picclo Clarinet as follows
I have set my settings as a Major Second above and set the range as C4 to C7 ie 3 octaves. This is wrong still because it should be a minor third above which in musescore isn't correct. Any ideas?
Although this works the key for my piece of work is in C Major Musescore added the key for the minor key which makes me thing that teh clarinet is in the wrong maajor although it works. For example if the E note is played on the PICCOLO Clarinet I know that on my piano keyboard it should be a C. However as we have the key of C with CEGC the instrument might be playing in the harmonies starting with an G of the chord but an and then being transposed so the part starts on an E on the Piccolo CL but an E on the piano. Althoughit will work on some phrases other phrases might sound a little off. My forte isnt transposition.
Regards David
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Comments
When I use the Piccolo Clarinet, the transposed E does sound like C. Are you sure you selected the piccolo clarinet?
In reply to When I use the Piccolo… by Henk De Groot
See the above picture and it is for the Piccolo Clarinet.
My piccolo clarinet looks different to your piccolo clarinet.
OS: Ubuntu 22.04.4 LTS, Arch.: x86_64, MuseScore Studio version (64-bit): 4.3.0-241231431, revision: 5f36e74
In reply to My piccolo clarinet looks… by underquark
Interesting interesting interesting I will look at this tomorrow Wonka is on and more important. My settings before I changed it to minor second to get it to work. Prior to that mine was set at a minor 6th.
In reply to My piccolo clarinet looks… by underquark
Mine shows the same minor 6th up.
In reply to Mine shows the same minor… by bobjp
Thanks for confirming this.
In reply to Thanks for confirming this. by dreece1
That is to say, the piccolo clarinet is in Ab and it is higher than Concert Pitch. To go a minor 6th UP is 8 semitones UP:
[C+8=] (1)Db (2)D (3)Eb (4)E (5)F (6)Gb (7)G (8)Ab
In reply to That is to say, the piccolo… by underquark
Is that correct? My Ab clarinets are in the correct key transposed of D Major ie two sharps. The Piccollo Clarinet show 3 flat but 8t should be 3 sharps. However in my setting that I altered to minor second up the key is the opposite of that ie 3 flats. Yeap. Understand about the 8 semitones being a 6th up. But the 6th up setting gives the wrong notes sounds ie the E in this instrument isn’t the same as the C in C major. Something seems to wrong in the pitches that when transposed up are still wrong. I will recheck the Ab esettings of the clarinet in Ab to see what they are and wil report back this afternoon. But my current setting workaround seems to work but I am not sur it is doing th right transposition ie I am not sure if my E on the stave is a proper E ie matches C in C Major scale or it could be matching another note within their the G and playing in F Major. As I said transcription isn’t my favourite subject. Why didn’t they standardise instruments so that when you are playing in C Major all instruments are playing as in C Major ie the trumpet I Bb still plays as Bbbut the score shows C Major. It would help with transposition. I thought the concert pitch was mean to make things easy ie compose in whatever the key is on the keyboard. Once you are finished then you should be able to press concert pitch then all instruments are transposed to their respective keys.
I know you can press the shift key and highlight the key signature in thr respective stave and change it to another using the key signature section of the pallets. If you have a key signature you can then change it by dragging over the key you want without changing the key of the rest of the score in that bar.
I will report back this afternoon on my findings with the 6th up etc……..
Hope this makes sense as I am beginning to confuse myself.
In reply to Is that correct? My Ab… by dreece1
right then i have solved this mystery. the piccolo clarinet technically used by different composers to describe different instruments. In this case they are referring to the Clarinet in D! It could be a clarinet in Eb but on Ab as we are being told by everything clarinet. A bit further down on their page on performer life the answer was staring me right in the face:
Although a lot of early twentieth-century composers, use the term “piccolo clarinet” to refer to the E-flat and D clarinets respectively, such classification is not very common today. Instead, the E-flat and D clarinets are more usually referred to as soprano clarinets.
The Soprano Clarinet in Musescore is tuned to G!
I put it to the moderators/Developers that we need clarification on the Soprano Clarinet as it is in G but historically it has either been in Eb or D.
In reply to right then i have solved… by dreece1
just pasting in the replies to the wrong place so that ehy are not lost when that thread is deleted:
Marli_oakshire
PRO
·
23 hours ago
it might be because you have it set on concert pitch or you accidentally set your writing to a different key. for example, you could be writing in C instead of Ab.
dreece1
PRO
·
just now
No definitely something wrong with the pitch internally. i added a new clean line and the wrong key was added as well as being well out of tune. My E is definitely no a C on a piano. Yes i know about the concert pitch and whatnot. i use concert pitch so that the score doesn't get screwed up.
dreece1
PRO
·
just now
@dreece1 OK i have just done a little experiement. I have added a C to the flute stave of my score and made sure it is middle C. I have then added one of my E notes from the PC stave and pasted it onto the same flute state and i get that my E isnt an E at all in C Major scale but an F natural. It should be the same as my C! The plot thickens.
dreece1
PRO
·
just now
@dreece1 OK When i add a new PC to my score it adds it with a key signature of Eb Major. The score should show as the transposition of B Major ie 5 sharps on a part that is an instrument in C I highlighted the Eb key signature and to get the key of 3 sharps of A major I have to select the key with the one flat which is F Major. When I do this the key signature now shows with 3 sharps as i need it. However the playback is everywhere with notes out of key etc..... if i go back to a c instrument such as a flute i add the C3 middle C on piano. I then copy my E from the PC and paste it into my score because clarinet pages says that an on a PC is equivalent to to a C of C major or middle C. Now when i past the Eb flat from the PC stave i get a C! Playback is absolutely awful because the stave is out of tune with the proper key of BMajor! this is using the 6th above setting!
dreece1
PRO
·
just now
@dreece1 I have sorted out what is wrong. see this link
https://musescore.org/en/node/364567#comment-1244129
When is a piccolo clarinet not a piccolo clarinet? When its either a clarinet in in Eb or D!
In reply to right then i have solved… by dreece1
Just want to add....when you select the instrument, there is additional information at the bottom of the dialog.
And for other use cases, you can just select the Clarinet and the select the desired key and the dialog shows additional information about the selected version.
In reply to Just want to add....when you… by Henk De Groot
Interesting I will review tomorrow. Thank you. David
In reply to right then i have solved… by dreece1
"I put it to the moderators/Developers that we need clarification on the Soprano Clarinet as it is in G but historically it has either been in Eb or D."
I have just submitted the following bug report: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/23018
In reply to "I put it to the moderators… by Magnus Johansson
For me, the extra information in the dialog is sufficient enough and as you can see in the screenshot, if you change the key of the clarinet, the description of the instrument is changing accordingly.
Personally I was not aware of soprano and sopranino, as we just refer to them clarinet. Adding that extra text in the instrument name will be more confusing for most (generic) users. Interesting to see what the dev team will reply.
In reply to For me, the extra… by Henk De Groot
Yes, the terms soprano and sopranino are not really necessary since the transposition is enough to identify them: A, Bb, C, D, Eb, G and Ab (from bottom to top). But the terms could be good as a clarification of their registers.
In reply to "I put it to the moderators… by Magnus Johansson
Great let’s hope that the mods and programmers relook at this as it is very confusing 🫤
"Going by Everything about clarinets, it is actually pitched at a minor third above. Any ideas why this instrument is wrong in Musescore?"
It isn't wrong. The clarinet you are talking about from "Everything about clarinets" is the Eb Clarinet, pitched a perfect fourth under the Ab Clarinet.
Regards,
Magnus
In reply to "Going by Everything about… by Magnus Johansson
Yes i was using the wrong instrument because so many instruments.