Problem with transposition

• May 1, 2015 - 04:49

I was creating a set of scales for a low-C bass clarinet, but ran into a problem with transposition.

After I created the first major/relative minor pair (C major /A minor), I ended that section with a double bar, then copied the two scales into the next measures, selected them, chose Notes > Transpose, checked By Key, and selected F major / D minor, made sure that Transpose key signatures was selected, and clicked OK. It did not transpose the key signature. Instead, it added the Bb to the major scale, and made appropriate changes to the minor scale. (See attached score.)

Only when I drag the F major/D minor key signature into the beginning of the new section do the scales end up with the correct key signature.

Is this the way it's supposed to work? Am I overlooking something?

I'm using Musescore 2.0.0 Rev 6e47f74.

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"Transpose key signatures" should probably have been labelled "Transpose *existing* key signatures". That is, any key signature changes that already exist within the selection get transposed - or if transposing from the beginning of the score, the initial one gets transposed. But this option doens't create new key signatures. You need to do that by dragging the (concert key) key signature from the palette.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

OK, I see that when trying to transpose the first section.

I don't think it should mention key "signature" at all, as to me that means the signature at the beginning of a section, just as labelled in the pallette. "Keep degree alterations" or something like that would seem to make more sense.

A minor nit, really. Quite an amazing program! Thanks for the prompt response.

In reply to by davetrow

No, it really does transpose key signatures, not just accidentals. But only key signatures that are already present, as I said. For example, take a score that is in C but has a change to Eb in the middle of it - and actually new key signature you drag from the palette. Now transpose the whole score - or any part of it that includes the key change - up a whole step to D. You'll see the initial key is changed to D, *and* the Eb key is changed to F. That is, it really does transpose key signatures if you use this option. Turn the option off and both key signatures are left alone - it transposes the notes only but not the key signatures.

So the option really does do what it says it will do, but you have to take it very literally. Transpose key signatures means just that - it idesn't mean *create new signatures*, it just takes the key signatures that are already there and transposes them.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I feel like I must be missing something really obvious, because Musescore is plainly not doing what you say it does.

Look at the Key Signatures palette. At the very bottom you'll see one with an "X" (open/atonal) and above it and to the right, a blank one (C major/A minor). So, as far as Musescore's own UI is concerned, when I started with a pair of scales with a "blank" key signature, they were in the key of C or A minor. Why, then, was that existing key signature not changed to a single flat when I asked it to transpose the identical pair of scales (copy-added to the end of the score) to F major/D minor?

The same thing happens again after I modify the F major/D minor pair to the proper key signature by dragging the single-flat signature from the palette so as to have a properly notated section. I select it, copy-add it to the end of the score, transpose to Bb major/G minor, and again, it doesn't change the existing key signature. I now have to drag the two-flat key signature from the palette to get a properly notated pair of scales.

At this point, however, if I select both the F major/D minor and Bb major/G minor pairs and ask Musescore to transpose them to C major/A minor, it does change both of the existing key signatures appropriately.

In reply to by davetrow

First, the whole point of the open/atonal key signature is that it never transposes. That's what makes it different from C major. So, C major transposes, Open/Atonal does not.

Second, transpose works *on a selection*. If you select a passage toward the end of the score, that will not transpose *anything* that appears before that selection. If the selection does not contain an actual key signature, then there is nothing to transpose except the notes. The key signature at the beginning of the score is *not* part of the selection unless you actually select all the way to the beginning of the score. So indee,d it is normal and correct that selection a passage toward the end of the score will not transpose the initial key signature. nor, as I have been trying to explain, with it *insert* a key signature change for you. There was no key signature change anywhere in the score before you did the transpose operation, so there will *still* be no key signature change after the transpsoe. MuseScore, again, does not *insert* key signature changes for you. It merely transposes *existing* key signature changes (or the initial key signature itself, if that initial key signature was part of the selection).

If you are still having problems, feel free to post the specific score you are having problems with an precise step by step instructions. But what should happen - and does for me - it that if a key signature is present in the range you are transposing, and you be sure to check the "Transpose key signatures option", the any actual key signatures changes, as well as the initial key signature *are* transposed if they are in the range. But no new key changes are inserted, and key signatures - changes or initial - that are not within the selection are not touched.

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