Chinese (Traditional) translation?
Is anyone working on a Chinese (Traditional) traslation? I may be interested in seeing what's involved.
Ying-Da
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Is anyone working on a Chinese (Traditional) traslation? I may be interested in seeing what's involved.
Ying-Da
Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.
Comments
The instruction for translating the website can be found here Translation instructions . There is some initial setup that Thomas will need to do first before you can get started such as adding a new language and giving your MuseScore account the necessary access.
To translate the software we will need to add a new file for Chinese to the repository. In in mean time you can look at the software translation files we already have to get a feel for how it works. Some prefer to edit the translation files using a text editor others prefer to edit using Qt Linguist which is software especially for this purpose.
In the next few days we will have this all set up for you. If you have questions along the way please ask.
Hi Ying-Da,
There are mainly 3 parts of the MuseScore project which can be translated: the software, the website and the handbook. Each one of them can be done separately. The website takes around 2 hours, the software and the handbook may take up to two days. I already enabled the Chinese (Traditional) interface which you can see at musescore.org/zh-hant.
The software itself is done by translating the mscore_zh_TW.ts file from the repository (if the file is not there yet, I'm still uploading it). As David mentioned, you can use QTlinguist program to translate the ts file. If you want to check in your updates, make a comment and attach your ts file. We'll make sure it is being committed.
The website has 5 menu pages which you can see at your right. You can translate these by going to the English menu pages, click on the translate tab and click on the 'add translation' link for the Chinese (Traditional) language. From there one you just need to replace the English text by your translation and leave the html markup as well as the filters in.
The only page which is not in the menu is the teaser page: click this link and change the English text into Chinese (Traditional).
The last part is the MuseScore handbook which is translated in the exact same way as the menu pages. However, it's advised to follow the translation instructions in order to easily translate the handbook.
If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask!
In reply to Chinese (Traditional) translation by Thomas
Correction: download the mscore_zh-Hant.ts file. The zh-TW was not the right rfc4646 code for Chinese Traditional.
We actually never answered your questions:
At this moment, there is no one working on the Chinese (Traditional) translation. But everything is in place now to start the translation process. If you decide to start the translation process, you will be the only one for the moment so you can do it at your own speed.
The translation process can go pretty quick. Most translators need a couple of hours for the website menu pages, the software can take up to two days, some times more depending on your knowledge concerning the naming conventions etc. The handbook can take up to a couple of days as well.
If you have more questions, don't hesitate to post them. We are eager to help out because adding a language such as Chinese, will be very beneficial to the MuseScore project in terms of adoption. So we are looking forward to reach out to even more people world wide. It's also very rewarding for the developers to see that download rate are going up.
Thanks!
In reply to Answering your questions by Thomas
I appreciate the quick responses and I will look into doing the translation. I'd like to explain my background a little bit though, so that everybody may have a realistic expectation - especially in terms of timing.
I am a native Chinese speaker, but have been in the U.S. since 1971. I am a retired computer science Ph.D. with 1600 CDs (about 90% classical), so I am pretty conversant with computers and music. The somewhat unfortunate thing though, for this task, is that I learned both mostly in English. So it would probably require me to poke around on the web to find out what actual Chinese terms are being used rather than 'doing my own translation'. This would mean that the translation would take longer than one would like. Also, I tend to have a number of projects going on (just upgraded to Sibelius 5.25, among other things), so it's probably not a case of my working on the translation days and nights continuously right away.
I hope that's acceptable.
Ying-Da
In reply to Thanks for the quick responses by yingdat
Hi Ying-Da,
There is no obligation whatsoever, so do things at your speed.
Perhaps an idea: it's always more fun to do translation with 2 people or more. So I thought we could translate the 5 website menu pages first. Google will index them and potentially send Chinese (Traditional) speakers to the musescore.org. I can setup a notice that we are looking for some extra translation help. A good idea?
As you will see on the http://musescore.org/zh-hant homepage, I did already some translation using Google translate. Could you perhaps review it? The strings I translated:
And here is another one I will add as notice for the translation help:
Have a great weekend!
In reply to An idea by Thomas
I can help a little, probably mostly in terms of reviews and suggestions, and I don't know if even that much is welcome...
Anyway, the home page is the most important because we want more Google references, so I took some time looking at it...
The problem with google translate and babelfish is that they don't understand idiomatic translation.
Here are some suggestions:
免費音樂的組成與樂譜軟件 : the issue is the word "free" is more tied to the word "music" than "composition". As a trial balloon, how about: "免費作曲與樂譜軟件"?
免費下載-現在: the issue is "now" is not used in this manner in Chinese, and idiomatically it is in the wrong order. I prefer simply "免費下載" but others may come up with something better...
版本0.9.4: Again it is an issue of word order; I prefer "0.9.4 版本" but I suspect there may be regional preferences here...
Also, zh-hant is a little strange. Is there other alternatives available?
In reply to A little help? by newsong4life
Me bad... I was not up to date with the latest RFC... So it looks like zh-Hant is the simplest description so far... region subtags would make it zh-Hant-HK etc...
In reply to A little help? by newsong4life
I would certainly welcome any help!
I have had most part of the home page zh-hant.htm translated. Since there isn't a 'translate' tab on that page, I am not sure how to get it to you. I am attching it here as .txt file.
I also think there will be a need to include a section in the handbook on entering/modifying Chinese text/lyrics with MuseScore. First of all, it's good to convince people that it really does work. (It wasn't so long ago - when I bought Sibelius 3- that Finale didn't even work with Chinese.) Secondly, a somewhat unexpected behavior while entering Chinese with MuseScore could discourage a few potential users. (I myself almost gave up.) Toward that end, I think including some Chinese music examples as demos would also help. (I have some examples I wouldn't mind contributing.)
Ying-Da
In reply to I would certainly welcome any by yingdat
I'll look again when it's live, where it's easier... For now, one suggestion: for Monday, instead of 一, how about 星期一?
In reply to I would certainly welcome any by yingdat
Does the link for Edit Chinese teaser work for you? Feel free to add something like "supports Chinese lyrics" in the teaser that displays on the Chinese language homepage.
In a new forum topic could you describe the unexpected behavior you experience while entering Chinese lyrics? I'm also interested in the Chinese music demos you have in mind.
In reply to Does the link for Edit by David Bolton
Hi Yingdat, David, Newsong4life,
I gave you all Chinese translation rights, so you can add Chinese translations or edit them.
I incorporated the advice given by Newsong4life and posted the translation by Yingdat. Feel free to adjust. from now on, it will be harder for me to react since I will be on the MusikMesse.
In reply to Does the link for Edit by David Bolton
David,
The Edit teaser link works fine! Apparently that's what I actually translated yesterday. I just did a little modifications to it. Please check it over.
I will start another topic on the unexpected behavior for Chinese input. How do I get the Chinese music demos to you? Just attach them here?
Ying-Da
In reply to David, The Edit teaser link by yingdat
Good job!
Just a quick note: in my browser, the creative common translation at the bottom 知识共享组织 署名 is in zh-Hans, not zh-Hant. The reference: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.zh is also zh-Hans. I think it should use: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.zh_TW (they are using the older RFC).
Also, the "download free - now" is not correct, it is currently "download free - download free". I think Ying-Da had a good translation, as I remember it, something like "立刻免費下載", which is a paraphrase which rearranges the words and remove the hyphen, instead of a literal word-for-word translation.
In reply to Good job! +Creative Commons reference to zh-Hans not zh-Hant by newsong4life
Thanks for checking things over and spotting the odd stuff. I noticed both of those too (but didn't catch 14 vs. 15 languages). I did change the Creative Commons translation from simplified Chinese to traditional Chinese. No idea why it doesn't change on the web site. The stuff with 'download free - now' is strange too.
In reply to Thanks newsong4life by yingdat
The copyright information, "download free" text, and slogan can only be changed by Thomas (who is in charge of the website). I think he is at the MusikMesse conference this week and probably busy the next few days. I'm sure he'll change it when he gets the chance.
In reply to The copyright information, by David Bolton
I changed it, but I must say I had a hard time to find out what the right translation eventually was.
BTW I found some open wireless internet here in Frankfurt ;-)
In reply to David, The Edit teaser link by yingdat
Oh, the number of languages is now 15! 可用 14 種語言 => 可用 15 種語言
In reply to Does the link for Edit by David Bolton
1. Piano solo 'Cowher's Flute'
2. Traditional Taiwanese tune 'Seve-Word Tune'
Comments
1. In the first piece, nearly everytime after I save the score and load it back, a few of the slurs would stray into a different shape. Anyone know why?
2. Again in the first piece, the #'s (from Create->Symbols) above the pralls (mordents?) in measures 33, 34, 45, and 46 took some persistence to get into the score. When I dragged # over to the score, sometimes it sticked but sometimes it simply disappeared the moment I released the button.
In reply to two scores and a couple of comments by yingdat
Yingdat, do you know the copyright status of these tunes? To distribute music with MuseScore it must either be public domain or the author/composer must give permission to license it under GPL
In reply to Yingdat, do you know the by David Bolton
"Cowherd's Flute" was composed in 1934, so the copyright has long since expired.
I have been trying to get in touch with the person who made the arrangement for "Seven-Word Tune", so far without success. I will keep trying if there is indeed a plan to distribute it with MuseScore. This piece appears in an educational cite
http://media.ilc.edu.tw/MUSIC/mt/mt_music-pic/mt_music-pic33.htm
So I don't expect any problems getting their consent once I get in touch with the composer and the lyricist.
In reply to Copyright status by yingdat
Unfortunately places like the United States have copyright laws that last 90 years from the date of publication if it is owned by a corporation or 70 years after death if it is owned by a person. Probably "Cowherd's Flute" would not qualify for public domain worldwide.
In reply to Unfortunately places like the by David Bolton
You are right, David. So that piece is out. I will redouble my effort to secure the release of 'Seven-Word Tune'.
Should that fail, would my arrangement of aother Taiwanese folksong be a workable alternative? Assuming there is not a standard of musical merit I have to meet, of course. At least there will be no copyright issues.
In reply to Too bad by yingdat
First of all, I finally got to hear the two songs after I rebooted my computer: they are really nice, YingDat!
What do you think about folk songs? It meets the copyright issues both ways: 1) As real folk songs, they are in public domain to begin with; 2) As songs more than 90 years old, fairly safe. We just need to avoid arrangements which may still be copyrighted...
In reply to Folk Songs? by newsong4life
The folksongs themselves may be free of copyright, the arrangements are likely to be copyrighted though since the copyright laws David mentioned would extend their reach back to beyond the beginning of 20th century. It's doubtful that any arrangements of Chinese/Taiwanese folksongs suitable for our purpose exited before then.
It would be great if any participants here could do an arrangement for this purpose.
In reply to Unfortunately places like the by David Bolton
David,
I finally got in touch with the arranger of the 'Seven-Word Tune'. What kind of document do I need from him for using his composition as demo with MuseScore release?
I assume I will need the same thing from the lyricist also.
In reply to What kind of consent form by yingdat
Ask the person to send written permission to Werner for MuseScore to use it under the GNU General Public License. His email is in the footer of this website.
In reply to An idea by Thomas
Just finished the Chinese translation of the Download page. Please check and let me know if you find any gross problems.
By the way, musescore.org/apt that one of the links in the download page points to does not seem to contains any useful material that I can see.
(Oh, and please pardon the 'Fished translation' goof in the revision comment. My head often runs ahead of my fingers.)
In reply to Download page translated by yingdat
No gross problems at all.
The first thing I noticed is that some words are not translated. But that may be outside the domain of the page.
The only other thing that caught my eyes is that screen resolution is probably not 屏幕分辨率.
I searched the dictionary and none of the 3 that came up seems to fit. I'm wondering if 分辨率 is necessary., as the word implies a ratio, which would be correct for resolution of a lens, for example.
In reply to Looks good! Thanks! by newsong4life
Translation of proper names and technical terms is always a tricky business. At times, it feels that using 視窗 is unnecessary since it's unlikely that anyone knowing that term wouldn't also know 'Windows', but at least 視窗 is a standard translation that has enter everyday vocabulary. I plucked 屏幕分辨率 right out of a couple of translation sites. The character 率 does also mean rate, level, or index, as in 頻率.
Eventually things may change, but at this point I think a lot of technical terms, e.g., package manager, Ubuntu, etc., would be more meaningful to more Chinese readers in English than in Chinese. That's why I either leave them alone or include them along with Chinese translation.
In reply to Translation of proper names by yingdat
Agree with you again:
1) there were no gross problems.
2) I tried several translation sites before I posted, and 屏幕分辨率 was the best of all proposed -- some were just terrible.
3) Frequency is a rate (or ratio) so, it is correct in using 頻率.
4) Most of the users probably benefit from the English terms.
What I was bringing up was in case someone finds a better translation. As for me, I'd rather paraphrase (some calls it dynamic equivalence), so that the English becomes:
screen is required to have 1024 by 768 pixels or more, instead of:
1024 by 768 pixels or higher screen resolution
This way the word "resolution" can be avoided altogether.
In reply to Agreed by newsong4life
I readily accept 率 to mean rate, so 屏幕分辨率 does not strike me as wrong. As a potential alternative, would 屏幕分辨度 be less objectionable?
In any case, I agree with you that our aim here is to convey the idea, and fidelity to specific wording has a low priority. Eventually a translation of 'screen resolution' will have to be arrived at, but there's no need to force the issue here and now. I like your rewording in English. How would you say it in Chinese?
In reply to I readily accept 率 to mean by yingdat
In my process of paraphrasing, I changed it slightly to: screen is required to have at least 1024 by 768 pixels
屏幕需有至少1024x768個映像點
Anyone has other ideas, please help us!
In reply to Download page translated by yingdat
Hi Yingdat, I stumbled upon the home page in Chinese again, and this time noticed something I want to report: it appears you have used a mixture of Chinese and Western punctuation marks...
Suggestion: replace comma (,) and period (.) with ，and 。 For westerners, note that although they look alike, they are non-proportional font, so the width is designed to maintain a consistent pattern with the other ideographs, so the whole page will look very neat.
Again, this is not a big deal -- the page looks good as it is. I just thought we want continuous improvement... :-)
In reply to Punctuation Marks by newsong4life
You are right. Please feel free to change them.
After the Traditional Chinese is translated, is it possible to make the Simplified Chinese?
You may want to use the ConvertZ 8.02 to do the conversion. The free software can be downloaded from the following link:
http://ftp.nchu.edu.tw/Cpatch/editor/convertz/
In reply to Simplified Chinese by hwtan
Hi hwtan,
Yes, adding Simplified Chinese would certainly be possible and can be done as soon as the Traditional translation is finished. However, if you would like to proceed without waiting, let me know and I'll enable Simplified as well.
In reply to Simplified Chinese by Thomas
I tried Google Translate on the Traditional Chinese teaser, and the resultant Simplied Chinese version actually seems good enough (to me, anyway). Not a big surprise as they are really one spoken language and there is a nearly 1-to-1 correspondence between the two character sets.
In reply to Simplified Chinese by hwtan
Thanks for the pointer! I will check it out.
David,
May I use examples of Chinese scores in the Screen Shot webpage instead of what's there now?
Ying-Da
In reply to Use Chinese examples in the 'Screen Shots' page? by yingdat
Feel free to use screenshots that will best interest Chinese speakers. If you are using copyrighted scores it is best to avoid displaying more than ten percent of the full work in order to claim fair use. Public domain works or your own arrangements of folk songs might be better if you plan to display a significant portion of the full score.
In reply to Use Chinese examples in the 'Screen Shots' page? by yingdat
Technically, use the 'Language dependent attachments' fields in the edit form of the page to upload your own screen shots. Make sure your screen shots have already the right dimensions because they can't be scaled on the website. You can include your images using the inline filter with squared brackets. It will be obvious from the other included images.
In reply to Language dependent attachments by Thomas
I will use amy own arrangement to avoid any copyright issues. I am thick-skinned and a few ridicules won't kill me.
In reply to Thanks David and thomas by yingdat
My MuseScore version is 0.9.4 Windows. I renamed the English language file mscore_en_GB.ts to mscore_zh_TW.ts and translated it using Qt Linguist under Windows XP SP3. Is there any way to update mscore_zh_TW.ts other then Copying and Pasting so that it can be used in new prerelease versions?
Thanks.
Some problems:
1.The Instrument List file (instruments.xml) doesn't support traditional Chinese language.
2.See the attached files MuseScore_image01.jpg ~ MuseScore_image04.jpg.
In reply to How to update *.ts files? by benice
Hi Benice,
Thanks for jumping in. Could you post your mscore_zh_TW.ts to a comment on this forum post in the same way you did for the screen shots?
We shall first update the ts file since many strings have been added or updated since the stable 0.9.4. The best practice would have been to ask us to create the zh_TW file and then download it from the repository as mentioned in the first comment of this topic. But now, we we check in your ts file first, update it and then you may proceed with your translation.
Regarding translating the instruments, download the instruments_zh_TW.xml file and translate it in a text editor by choice. Once finished, upload it in a new forum topic and it will be committed by one of us.
Thanks for your effort!
In reply to going forward by Thomas
Thanks for your reply. I will post a new topic.