'"To coda" and "D.S." jumpers do not work

• Feb 14, 2021 - 19:19

(I have Window 7 Ultimate SP1. X64)
I'm new to Musescore (3.6) and I'm an amateur musician. I'm just learning and testing Musecore's features and capabilities. I've just started my first Musescore notation project (see the title "Ugráló unokák közt"). I could solve each issue so far, except the proper use of "To Coda" and "D.S." jumping which do not work for me at all (in spite of my several attempts). Here are the cases:
1) I want a repeat in the "Verse" section (measures #11-23). Therefore I put a "D.S. al Coda" instruction in measure #31 (Labels: Jump to: segno1, Play until: Coda, Cont'd from: Coda2, Play repeats). I put "Segno" mark (Type: segno, Label: segno1) in measure #11. (It worked properly.) Then I put "To Coda" jumper (Type: Jump to Coda, Label: Coda2) in measure #23 but when this position/instruction has been reached the melody went on instead of jumping to measure #32 where I put the "Coda" (Type: coda, Label: coda2) mark. I tried to solve it several times and in different ways (e.g. changing relevant properties, etc.) but it has never worked for me.
2) After the Refrain I wanted a jump from measure #56 to measure #2 (which is "Intro"). I used "D.S." (Jump to: segno2, Play until: end, Play repeats) and in measure #2 I put "Segno" (Type: segno, Label: segno2) but it did not work either.
As for the solutions, I think, there might be some important information or techniques I do not know about which could help. Anyway, I can't complete this new song until I resolve these issues.
(I hope Marc Sabatella or a competent superviser will attend this request of mine.) I attach my relevant work in progress file.
Anybody's help will be highly appreciated.


Comments

In reply to by Shoichi

Thanks.
In case of "To Coda" there's no "Play Repeats" option to tick in my Inspector. (???) (I use Musescore v.3.6.0.487915773).
In case of "D.S." the "Play Repeats" option was ticked by me originally. In spite of this, it did not work.
So any new ideas?

The score file is missing so that kind of makes it hard to visualize what you're going on about. Please attach it and I'll have a look.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Thanks for the useful comment on the type of "To Coda". It's been noted.
I checked again the settings of each marker and jumper in the Instructor, and they are OK (i.e. match your recommendations).
Although I updated the software from v3.6.0 to 3.6.2 it did not solve the original issues.

So, then - when PLAYBACK - what to do if
1) achieving measure #23 I want the playback to continue right from measure #32 (thus jumping over the measures from #24 thru #31), and
2) coming to measure #56 the playback should jump to / continue right from measure #2?

So, the original issues are still open. Any effective solution would be welcome.

In reply to by jeetee

Here is my desired roadmap.
Repeats (i.e. markers & jumpers):
1. Intro (from measure #1 to measure #10) (at measure #2: marker "segno2")
2. Verse 1 (from measure #11 to measure #23) (at measure #11: marker "segno1")
3. Bridge 1 (from measure #24 to measure #31) (at measure #31: jumper "D.S.al Coda" (jump to "segno1" (see Verse 1), play until "Coda" ("To Coda" at the end of Verse 2), continue to play from "coda2" (see Bridge 2), play repeats) )
4. Verse 2 (from measure #11 to measure #23) (at measure #23: marker "To Coda" (jump to coda, coda) )
5. Bridge 2 (from measure #32 to measure #33) (at measure #32: marker "coda2")
6. Refrain (from measure #34 to measure #49)
7. Bridge 3 (from measure #50 to measure #56) (at measure #56: "D.S." (jump to "segno2" (see Intro), play until: "end") )
The problems are that in Playback mode
1) "D.S. al Coda" does not work: as at "To Coda" the sequence does not continue from measure #32 as it should do but continues from measure #24 which is completely wrong.
2) "D.S." does not jump back to "segno2" at measure #2 at the beginning of Intro but continues from measure #57 which is wrong again.

I only want "D.S. al Coda" and "D.S." to work properly. Unfortunately, I have received no good solutions so far.
I can't wait to receive effective help.

Attachment Size
Ugralo unokak kozt (v5.0).mscz 33 KB

In reply to by erga53

Unfortunately what you wrote is again unclear to me (or at least not corresponding to the score you attached).

1-10, 11-23 → This desired order does not at all comply with having entered an end repeat 9 with volta's at all. Please write out the expected order referring only measure numbers and try to assume that I know nothing about how you expect jumps/repeats to work.

However, from your writedown the maximum I can guess is something like this?:
1-9, 2-8, 10-31, 11-23, 32-56, 2-?????

We have about 60 automated tests that show that "D.S. al Coda" and "D.S." work properly, at least using standard notation conventions with them. It may very well be that you've found a situation that is not yet well handled by MuseScore, but please allow for us to at least understand the roadmap you're looking for.

In reply to by jeetee

Hi jeetee,
I regret to see that my earlier email reply to your last comments above is missing here (on this page). So now I confirm your guess: "Yes, this is it. This is the exact road map I'd like to have executed by the Musescore software."
Please, look into the matter again! I'm eagerly still waiting for your solution. Thanks in advance. (URGENT.)

In reply to by Bertalan Fodor

Hurray! Bertalan could find the way to the solution. Which is as follows:
1) The input of D.S. al Coda must be the last step of all the relevant markers and jump instructions (Thus Signo1, To Coda and Coda2 must be all set before inputting D.S. al Coda. This happened when Bertalan deleted then re-entered the D.S. al Coda.)
2) It also seems important that the types and labels of the markers must be as follows:
Segno = Type: (blank), Label: segno1. (If the "Type" is not blank it will not work!!!)
To Coda = Type: Jump to Coda, Lebel: coda.
Coda2 = Type: (blank), Label: coda2. (Label "codab" doesn't work even if it matches the (same) prescription in D.S. al Coda!!!)
3) Finally D.S. al Coda consequently must be set as: Jump to: segno1, Play until: coda, Continue from: coda2.
4) The option "Play repeats" (under D.S.al Coda settings) must not be ticked off.
No other order of input instructions and setting worked for me!
It would be very useful for every user to be informed in more details accordingly. This could save several weeks of work, a large amount of time lost, and spared from a lot of poison.

Kedves Bertalan! --- Ön/Te vagy a legjobb!!! ---
Ez már nem az első problémám és esetem, amikor - számos "szakértőt" (külföldről és itthon) lepipálva csak Ön/Te tudtál segíteni az adott MuseScore probléma megoldásában! Ez úton is nagyon köszönöm!
(Esetleg van-e közvetlen elérhetősége(d) is, esetleges jövőbeli (alkalmi) konzultációk átfutási idejének lerövidítése céljából? Megkérdezhetem-e, hogy egyébként mivel foglalkozol, stb.?)

In reply to by erga53

Glad you found out what you wanted even when you couldn't describe it.

Just some facts:
1) No. The order of adding jump instructions is entirely irrelevant; they are evaluated upon playback, not when being added to the score.

2) The only labels that are not intended for usage by users are "start" and "end"; you may use any other text for a label as long as you make the jump instruction match up with them. It is entirely irrelevant which label text you use as long as they match up.

3) It must be set to match the labels indeed (as pointed out in 2) )

4) That option is off by default as that is the "classical" and conventional way of performing the jump. You are free to check it if that is the effect you're looking for, but are also advised to then change the jump instruction text so that your performers are aware of the intention as well.

What really could've saved you weeks of work though is providing the expected playback order when being asked for it ;-)

In reply to by jeetee

Thank you for your comment.
I don't really understand your indignation. You were able to find out the expected playback order from my description in the Forum (see above) correctly which I was happy to confirm to you there. However, you didn't give me the working solution after all so far.

Naturally, I know neither the system details of Musescore nor how it works. I'm just a novice user and not a developer of this software.

The only thing from which I can judge whether advice, recommendation, or solution received from anybody is good or bad is the fact whether it does work or not. (I could have judged whether your proposed solution would be good or not only if I have received any from you. In fact, I couldn't wait to get that.)

Only Bertalan's "test result" (i.e. delete and re-enter the D.S. al Coda instruction) gave me an idea of how to try to solve the issue myself. Importantly, I was able to reproduce Bertalan's "test". Then I went on trying to find out why it did not work for me before. I've tried different orders of inputs (of jump instruction and markers, etc.), with different settings, several times. Finally, I could identify the only combination that worked for me. This was the one, the findings of which I shared with you at the end (see above).

To summarize the situation:

1) I don't doubt that all your comments below are true (no question since you are an expert in Musescore while I'm just a very beginner).
2) No matter what you write about the expected features and operating theory of this instruction in Musescore if it does not work for me in practice. The only thing I can test (whether it works or not) is an exact solution recommended. However, I haven't received such a thing from you so far. Anytime you would send me one I'd be happy to try and test that, too.
3) I'm happy that I have at least one working solution. I'll apply that as long as I do not have a better one. Would you have a better one for me (knowing enough about the roadmap by now, see above) I'll be open to any practical and working new solutions, as well.

Thanks for your attention.

In reply to by erga53

Part of the indignation (rather slight frustration) comes from the fact that I have not figured out your expected playback order and asked you to clarify it twice already. So yes, I can't give you a working solution as I don't know what it should do!

This is (again) as far as I guessed: 1-9, 2-8, 10-31, 11-23, 32-56, 2-?????
Now if you don't care about the part after where I've put question marks, then fine; I can give you a version that stops playback right there and then. But I guess that is not what you want, you want playback to continue there according to some (to me still unknown) order of measures.

So if whatever you've gotten now works for you; then that's fine. If you want to see what I can come up with, then please finally complete the measure order so I have something to work with.

The reason I'm quite persistent on this matter is that I am trying to figure out if there is a valid use case with regards to jumps and repeats which MuseScore isn't handling correctly (and thus I should put effort into fixing that), or if there is a misunderstanding on how those instructions are supposed to work and you're trying to "abuse" them for a different purpose; in which case we can attempt some workarounds/trickery to try and get what you want without breaking the expected use case scenarios for those instructions.

In reply to by jeetee

To be honest, it is quite hard to come up with a minimal example in this case, but I'm quite sure there really is some issue: in the example I did have to remove and readd the D.S. mark to make it start working, setting the values correctly didn't help. It might have happened because version change or other error. I will try to come up with a proper use case to demonstrate the issue, I think we should freeze this discussion until that.

In reply to by jeetee

Sorry, Jeetee. The song has been a work in progress (after measure 2).
The correct roadmap now is (as above) 1-9, 2-8, 10-31, 11-23, 32-56, 2-48, 57-122 (da Fine, In the last 4 bars to fade). (Anyway, the Jump issues have ended with the D.S. instruction (to jump back and repeat from measure 2).) I look forward to recieve your solution.

In reply to by jeetee

Thanks for your attention!
Yes, I do want them. The roadmap is exactly the one you describe above (if we separately mention the Voltas, too). Any recommended solution from you? (i.e. I do have the problem of D.S. al Coda again in another project, too. The previous solution (i.e. delete and repeat input instructions) does not work now! (Sorry for the late reply.)

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