Pedal start anchor with seconds

• Oct 27, 2014 - 20:27

I just wonder if this is normal that the pedal start anchor is not aligned with the leftmost note in this chord:

pedal-second.png

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pedal-second.png 1.76 KB

Comments

• Oct 27, 2014 - 21:14

I doubt it was a conscious choice one way or another - that's just what happens if you use a 0 offset (the backnote would have a negative offset). But FWIW, I checked a variety of editions of piano music, and this *does* seem to be the norm.

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• Oct 28, 2014 - 00:45

All my published editions of music use the older 'Ped.' and asterisk method, and I don't have any truly authoritative reference book on hand for current engraving conventions.

But - isn't 'ignoring' the vertically displaced second in this instance consistent with how other lines are be implemented? I'm thinking that ottavas, hairpins, slurs, etc. would all begin over or under the main notes ... correct?

And wouldn't this 'start at the main notes' practice also include other elements that precede a chord, such as arpeggio signs, accidentals, 'grace notes', etc.? It's very common in piano music for a chord to be preceded by a distant acciaccatura which implicitly must be 'caught' by the pedal, for example - but I've never seen the pedal indication offset such that it would reside under the acciaccatura.

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• Oct 28, 2014 - 01:15

With respect to grace notes, I see this notated both ways in the editions I have. But with respect to accidentals, arpeggios, etc - yes, most lines align with the "normal" note in cases like this as opposed to the "back" note. This is true both in MuseScore and the published music I consulted. Although it is pretty clear most editors adjust things according to situation and don't seem to follow any rule rigidly.

Elaine Gould ("Behind Bars") doesn't weigh in specifically on this topic with respect to pedal. She *does* show examples with ottavas that support the idea that those specifically should be treated specially - they should begin all the way to the left and end all the way to the right, so accidentals & backnotes are included. And we do this.

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• Oct 28, 2014 - 14:06

Whole notes are often a special case in MuseScore, becausde their heads are significantly larger than other notes. As I said, the algorithm is actually very simple - we simply use the nominal start position of the chord with no offset. Whole notes, though, are given an offset so that they align with other notes that have smaller stems.

So if you place a quarter note at the same time position in the treble clef staff, you'll see the pedal line in your first and third picture *does* align with that; the whole note is just bigger and hence sticking out to the left. This doesn't happen for #2 or #4 because they are downstem chords and that changes the calculations.

I say this not to excuse anything, but to set expectations. Whole notes have different alignment requirements than other notes types, and this will sometimes lead to apparent anomalies.

It woud, I'm sure, be possible to address this case, but I'm relucatant to do anything that risks messing up the alignment of the ^ symbols for pedal changes. Right now, that kind of hinges on the simple predictability of being able to rely on the fact that we can use a zero offset for the end of the previous line and start of the next.

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• Oct 28, 2014 - 15:02

Great explanation, Marc, and I think it's wise for people always to keep in mind that whole notes are outliers simply because they have physical characteristics common to none of the smaller and more common note values. I think it's entirely appropriate that behaviors (and, as you say, 'expectations') take that into account.

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