How to adjust note duration without inserting extra notes?
In the example attached to this post, a succession of three notes are spaced one beat apart, beginning 1/16 rest after the beginning of the measure. The first two notes have a duration of two beats (half notes), and the third note has a duration of one beat. In MuseScore, the three notes are displayed as a succession of tied notes. If I change the duration of the first note, middle C, to one beat by clicking on it, making it turn red, then clicking on the quarter note icon in the toolbar, the duration of the note is changed to one beat, as expected. However, MuseScore adds two extra notes, of the same pitch, having a duration of 1/16 note, at beat 2.25 and at beat 3. How can I make MuseScore not do that? I just want to change the duration of the first note, without adding extra notes and without changing the timing or duration of following notes.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| triad.mscz | 4.32 KB |
Comments
Right now this is a bit of a mess - was this perhaps the result of MIDI import? It's a good example of why that isn't a really good way of entering music notation.
Anyhow, the middle C you have is entered on the "e" of "1". It's incorrect to put a quarter note there - it's not allowed by the rules of music notation. Quarter notes can only start one the beat or on an "and". That's why the ties are needed, and why MuseScore added them automatically.
My guess is you actually want to just move the note to beat 1. In which case you should use cut and paste to move it - along with the rest of the notes it is tied to. In fact, my best guess is you want to move everything a quarter of a beat earlier. So I'd start by selecting the C, then Ctrl+Shift+End to select to the end, Ctrl+X to cut, then click the beginning of the measure and Ctrl+V to paste. You can then use Tools / Regroup Rhythm to fix the ties to make sense.
If that doesn't actually match what you are trying to do, then please explain in more detail.
In reply to Right now this is a bit of a… by Marc Sabatella
The uploaded file is just a generic example of a problem I am encountering in a much longer MIDI file. The phrasing is such that some quarter notes begin between beats, at eighth note or sixteenth note spacing. I have downbeats aligned with the beginning of measures, but phrasing within measures is fluid. I have quantified all note timings and durations in the MIDI file down to a resolution of a sixteenth note, and I would like the music notation to show the quantified values accurately. MuseScore does a pretty good job doing that, such that the music sounds right when played back in MuseScore. However, there are places in the score where there are a lot of tied notes, and I would like to simplify the notation by changing tied notes to eighth notes or quarter notes where it would make no difference to how the music is played, because the sustain pedal is down. So I would like MuseScore to do that without inserting extra notes. It would be ok if it inserted rests, even if the sustain pedal makes them irrelevant.
In reply to The uploaded file is just a… by steven_brown1
If the notes begin between the beats, then notating with ties is absolutely correct, you shouldn't be trying to change it. But for the recor,d if you did for whatever want to create incorrect notation and change that dotted eighth to a quarter, note this lengthening thus overwrites the start of the following quarter note. MuseScore cannot know what you had in mind when you did that, but not knowing what else you might have meant, it elects to keep as much of that subsequent note as it can. And that necessarily means replacing the quarter note with something corresponding shorter. if it didn't do that, your measure would now have an extra quarter of a beat between beats two and three.
RIght now this notation is correct for what it is, but as I said, extremely messy, because you have a passage that appears to be quarter notes but it's displaced by a quarter beat. If that's what you really mean, then you should leave this alone, except perhaps to change the voice assignments. Or, you could use the MIDI import panel to tell MuseScore to notate it using fewer voices, which would probably be less messy.
in general, though, trying to notate a MIDI performance - even a quantized one - precisely is usually a mistake. Good (readable) notation is often more of a guide for producing an effect than a literal description of the effect.
In reply to If the notes begin between… by Marc Sabatella
Marc, it is not "incorrect notation" to edit the duration of a note to a shorter value. I attached to this message a new file which is not the result of importing a MIDI file; I created it in MuseScore. It shows that I can have a quarter note begin at beat 2.25, another at 3.25, and another at 4.25 extending into the next measure. I can shorten or lengthen the E or the G without MuseScore adding extra notes. The problems seem to arise in a score imported from a MIDI file. As a workaround, I'll try deleting notes I want to shorten and re-entering them with the values I want.
In reply to Marc, it is not "incorrect… by steven_brown1
Of course it's not incorrect to shorten a duration; it's incorrect if the value chosen is not legitimate for the beat position. Whether you lengthen something to a quarter note or shorten it to a quarter note is immaterial; it's incorrect to have a quarter note on the "e". MuseScore doesn't prevent you from creating incorrect notation, as your example here proves - it's completely incorrect, but you were allowed to create it. But the moment you try altering a rhythm and MuseScore then has to adjust things to compensate, the adjustments will generally be spelled correctly.
Again, lengthening a note doesn't "add" extra notes; it shortens the next note correspondingly to avoid extra beats. This shortening necessarily means respelling the rhythm of that note, and sometimes that respelling will require "extra notes", but these "extra notes" aren't "added", they are simply replacing the remaining duration of the shortened note.
In reply to Of course it's not incorrect… by Marc Sabatella
I get what you're saying, but the problem I am encountering is that when I try to shorten the duration of a succession of tied notes, the duration for that note is shortened, but extra notes are added. That is demonstrated in the example I attached to the first post in this thread, the file triad.mscz. When I shorten the duration of the first note to a sixteenth note, an extra note of quarter note duration is added at beat 2. I can see how lengthening a note can cause problems by colliding with following notes, but there should be no problem with shortening a note, and doing that should not cause the software to add extra notes.
In reply to I get what you're saying,… by steven_brown1
Indeed, for tied notes, it is unclear to MsueScore what you might mean in changing the duration. Ties are normally written only when they are required by the rules of notation - when the full duration of the note is something that cannot be legitimately written on the beat it needs to start on. And in these cases, the duration needs to be broken up with a tie according to some fairly specific rules. So it rarely makes sense to change the duration of a note and leave it tied - that pretty much would mean breaking the normal rules. You're welcome to break rules, but generally we don't like to assume that is what you want. So if you want to break the rules of how ties are used, you do indeed need to break/re-establish ties manually.
In reply to Of course it's not incorrect… by Marc Sabatella
I think I have it figured out. When the duration of the first note of a succession of tied notes is shortened, MuseScore does not treat the succession of tied notes as one note. So it will shorten the duration of the first note in the succession, break the tie, and leave the remaining tied notes. This occurs even if the tied notes are the way of notating a single note that begins between beats.
In reply to Right now this is a bit of a… by Marc Sabatella
If a note of quarter note duration that begins after a sixteenth note rest cannot be displayed as a quarter note without violating the rules of music notation, so be it. In that case, let it be shown as a succession of tied notes. However, it should still be possible to change the duration of the note or tied notes without inserting extra notes.
Perhaps this file captures a performance that was made, say, "with a swing." The performer referenced sheet music but didn't follow it exactly. However, the MIDI file did capture it "exactly," so it doesn't match properly-notated sheet music. For these reasons, working with MIDI files of actual live performances can involve an unexpected amount of cleanup work.