chord name aligment/multi-select and change font size or type

• Oct 5, 2013 - 17:15

Attaching a file that demonstrates a common error or problem I'm having in not being able to align chord names properly. I am also not able to change the fonts on a multiple select.

Try with this file to select all the chords and change them all to one size and align them.

Also, related problem, how do we do this when we have chord subs above or below the normal chords?

Attachment Size
Pure Imagination.mscz 4.11 KB

Comments

Chord symbols should size & align automatically according to the parameters in Style / Edit Text Style / Chordname. So that's always the first place to go to set the defaults you want. Changes take place on reload. Then, if some individual chords need to be moved, just drag them. Don't use Text Properties; it doesn't work with chord symbols. This applies also if you want alternate chords above or below the default - just drag them. You can drag a whole bunch at once by ctrl-clicking them then ctrl-dragging.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I tried doing it with the method you suggested and it doesn't do anything at all. There are all sorts of weird things that happen afterward, even after reloading, like if I select one chord and move it, all chords on the page move around.

Can you check out the file I attached and see if you get the same behavior or if you can align the chords properly.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I will reattach the file again with this message.

One problem at a time to make things simpler.

When I open this file, the chords are aligned vertically and it looks fine.

Then when I try to move any single chord or even just edit a chord name, all the chords on the page move. ( I have not done any multiple select).

Attachment Size
Pure Imagination.mscz 4.47 KB

In reply to by fkey

The reason all the chords move is that they are snapping to the location you choose in Edit / Text Style / Chordname. You have it set to -6.00sp, which is way above the staff. The reason they don't show up there in the first place probably has to do with your previous attempts at using text properties. So it's a bit messed up right now. I tried seeing if I could fix it by selecting all chords and doing Ctrl+R to remove your manual adjustment attempts, but this didn't completely work. So I think on this file you are better off deleting the chord (right one, select / all similar elements / delete) and re-entering them. And this time, be sure to start with an appropriate default for the text style, and only move chords by dragging, not via text properties. Maybe the best way if you want so many alternate chords is to enter those first, then select them all and move them all up at once, then enter the real chords.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

ok this makes sense, i must have caused problems by editing text properties.

isn't there a way of cancelling out text properties, or somehow copying/exporting everything to a clean file?

as far as entering subs, hopefully in 2.0 there will be a better method. we should be free to enter subs in any order, on the fly, and switch things around at will.

sometimes i have two sets of subs, so there would be 3 rows of chords. maybe too much to ask but the newer version should be able to accomodate these things. half the point of using this program is the typesetting functions (ie alignment). if i have to jump through hoops for simple alignment then it's off to wine/sibelius-land again. (not that sibelius works well under wine ;)

In reply to by fkey

Normally text properties can be reset by simply entering new ones, unfortunately that only works if the items in question are designed to work with text properties in the first place. So unfortunately, there just doesn't seem to be a good way of fixing this score. Feel free to experiment, but I played a little bit and came up blank. I'd get things to appear to work, but would still jump. So I think you're probably best off chalking this up to experience and then just not getting yourself into this situation in the future.

You *are* free to enter subs any time you want. I was merely observing that it will go easier if you do it the way I said. If you enter the main chords first, then the subs, it will be hard to select just the subs in order to move them. But you're welcome to try - it will just be harder to select only the subs, because they will overlap with the main chords. I suppose you could enter the main chords first, move them temporarily lower to get them out of the way, then enter the subs, then select the subs, move them up, then select the original chords and hit Ctrl+R to return them to their original positions. I just tried (feel free to download a nightly build to see for yourself) and it works. But it's definitely more work than the way I described first. One thing that will help in 2.0 - moving chords vertically can be done with the arrow keys. In 1.3, the only way to get manually positioned chords to align vertically is to drag them all at once. In 2.0, you can move them one at a time (or in small groups) and as long as you move them the same number of clicks of the arrow key, they will be aligned vertically.

Anyhow, *simple* alignment already does work quite well. What you are trying to do - entering multiple rows of chord symbols - is decidedly *non-simple*. And FWIW, it's hard to do in Finale as well, or at least was in the most recent version I used. In part because it is awkward to do, but probably mostly because it tends to make scores cluttered and hard to read, most people don't enter lots of subs. So you're kind of pushing the boundaries here.

Bottom line: *automatic* alignment of multiple sets of chord symbols is not currently possible and probably won't be any time soon (read: not planned for 2.0) because it isn't something most people do often enough to make simplifying the process a high enough priority. But I do think you'll find a number of features of 2.0 make all of this less bothersome.

In reply to by fkey

As often occurs during real life performance of, say, a lead sheet, chord subs are often improvised and not fully notated.
How many times has a minor 7th chord been substituted in place of a standard minor chord to impart a 'cooler sound'?
Conversely, how many times has a 7th chord been substituted in place of a more complicated chord during performance (especially on first attempt by a beginner)?

Anyway,
@fkey: Suppose you had a lead sheet, already containing chordnames, to which you wanted to add sub chords - like maybe for a 2nd repeat. These subs you absolutely want notated for future reference.
First, ensure that the main chordnames display neatly - as if they sat on a 'violet' straight line.
Then:
1. To enter a sub chordname, click on a note (it can even be the same note as the main chordname) and then CTRL + K for chord name entry.
2. At the appearance of the cursor - and *before* typing anything - press Backspace (an equal number of times prior to each entry) to offset the sub chord name from entirely overlapping the main chord, so it will be easier to select later.
3. When done, the sub chords will not fully overlap the main chordnames and will be uniformly located.
4. Finally, CTRL click to highlight a group and then CTRL move to reposition any or all of them.

Please open the attachment and CTRL click on *all* the 'red' chords then CTRL move *all*.
Alternatively, try it separately for each system (i.e. line).

I sometimes find myself adding sub chords to old scores and found this to be effective.

P.S. Entering the subs first, then dragging them up, then adding the 'main' chords might not always work as there is the possibility of clashes with the 'main' chords by not having dragged the sub chords up high enough, so then you'd have to re-select all the sub chords to re-position them.

Regards.

Attachment Size
Sub chords.mscz 3.2 KB

In reply to by fkey

(What version of Musescore?)
There's lots going on here.

You wrote; "if I select one chord and move it, all chords on the page move around."
Which particular chord in which measure?

Also,
I see you have 'cchords_sym.xml' set as your chord description file under Style / Edit General Style / Chordnames.
Looking at your score, if you right click on the 'F#o7' chord in the third measure (bar) and check Harmony Properties in the drop down menu, you'll see the chord listed as a 'C' chord. Click on 'OK' and see what happens to the 'F#o7' chord.
If you do the same for the 'Ebdim7' chord in the 7th measure, the same thing happens.
Try it with a 'good' chord for comparison.
Please read:
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/chord-name

I have attached a file, using the same 'cchords_sym.xml', and if you compare the 'F#o7' here to yours, you'll see a subtle difference.
The 'Ebdim7' is more obvious.
Here's further info. concerning chord entry (see the last 4 comments on this thread):
http://musescore.org/en/node/19280#comment-87727

For chord alignment:
Compare Style / Edit Text Style / Chordname / Offset in the attachment.
Setting the Y offset allows for volta clearance, and so all the chordnames are uniformly the same distance from the staff. (The red line is for illustrative purpose only.)

For chord subs:
One way to do this:
1. Enter all the regular chords.
2. For each sub, click on a note (it can even be the same note as in #1) and then CTRL + K for chord name entry.
3. At the appearance of the cursor, before typing anything, hit Backspace (the same number of times for each entry to maintain a consistent distance) to offset the chord sub name from clashing with #1 chord.
4. As the sub chords do not fully overlap the #1 chordnames and are uniformly located (due to step #3), you can CTRL click on each one to highlight a group and then move them.

Regards.

Attachment Size
Pure Imagination 1.mscz 3.22 KB

In reply to by Jm6stringer

I'm on arch linux, Musescore 1.3

Your file works fine. Maybe my file is corrupted somehow.

There is a red line on yours though above the first system, not sure if this is relevant or part of the possible corruption.

Re: chord properties, for some reason random chords do not have the correct note set. That's easy enough to go through and correct. Some of these files I have are imported form other programs.

See my above comment about all the chords moving by themselves when I select just one.

In reply to by fkey

The reason some chords are not correct is that you entered something MuseScore does recognize according to the currently chord description file you have set in edit / edit general style / chordnames (eg, cchords_sym). If the current style wants diminished chords to be spelled "o", then "dim" will result in an unrecognized chord.

For 2.0, this much is greatly improved - you can type pretty much anything you want and it will be recognized, no need to stick to what any particular chord description file expects.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I didn't pose a question about this issue. I figured this out yesterday, and it's not a big deal compared to the chords jumping around on their own and not being able to vertically align them.

Going forward I'm entering chords the way MS likes to see them.

In reply to by fkey

Welcome aboard fkey...

Your first post touched upon several things - chordname spelling, text alignment, score layout, substitute chord entry, etc.

The answers (including why the red line appears in 'Pure Imagination 1.mscz') can be found by *slowly* reading the responses and any referenced links.

Best way forward could be to compare all three attachments posted here and explore the different style settings.

P.S. I noticed you changed the chord description file in your second attachment - way to go!

Regards.

In reply to by Jm6stringer

Looks like there was some corruption in my score.

I copied everything to a new score and the chords do not move around on their own.

I'll keep playing with this now and hopefully everything will work.

What do you think is best practice for lead sheets? Is there a particular style I should stick with.

In reply to by fkey

There is a lead sheet template available when a score is created.
If you don't like all the defaults, it can be used as a starting point, then you can save your own settings, various fonts, chord description file, etc. as a template.
See:
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/create-new-score#newscore-templates

Also,
You can create a blank score from scratch and save it as a template.

I use MS mainly to condense music into 2 page lead sheets.
(I much prefer Times New Roman as a title font.)
Regards.

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