System Brackets - How to Delete Just One?
Hey guys,
I'm editing a renaissance madrigal for five voices from old style notation to modern. At the beginning of the score I want to include a courtesy system with the original clefs, before the actual modern notation.
I need to find a way to remove the system bracket from the courtesy system, but leave the bracket in place at the start of the modern system.
When I delete one bracket, the other bracket deletes also, and if I shorten a bracket the other bracket does also.
There must be a way to delete the bracket at the start of the courtesy system and leave the other main one in place.
Please see pic of the problem...
Any help greatly appreciated.
Seven_Stars
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Screenshot Systems.jpg | 211.28 KB |
Comments
Maybe select the bracket of the courtesy system and press "v" to make it invisible.
In reply to Maybe select the bracket of… by kuwitt
Brilliant, it worked.. thanks so much! S
In reply to Brilliant, it worked… by Seven_Stars
How did you insert the inside bracket? I'm doing the same thing for the same reason. The bracket simply jumps to the beginning of the system whenever I try to insert it at the beginning of the second bar.
In reply to How did you insert the… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
My guess is he actually inserted a horizontal frame then resized it to have zero (or negative) width. That would explain why there is also a new clef etc. The bracket would appear automatically in that case - no need to insert it manually.
In reply to How did you insert the… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
Make sure you have the Advanced Palette selected.
1. Go to Frames & Bars in the advanced palette.
2. Drag the 'Insert Horizontal Frame' to where in the score you want the break to occur. E.G. if you wanted to have the first bar separated from the rest of the score, drag and drop it on bar 2. Another way to do the same thing is select the bar where you want the break to occur and then double click Insert Horizontal Frame.
The separated bar will still have its bracket, but you can make it invisible by selecting it and pressing v. It will now appear a lighter shade in MuseScore, but will not appear in your PDF export.
If you want to exclude the separated bar from the bar count, select it, then right click and select Bar Properties and then tick 'Exclude from bar count'. This will then make bar 2 become bar 1.
Good luck,
Seven_Stars
In reply to Make sure you have the… by Seven_Stars
Thanks - it works! I spent an hour trying to figure out why it didn't until I realised it was because I was in continuous view, not page view!!! Grrrr...
Now, are you ready for Problem No.2? Both lines of my organ part were originally on six-line staves. The top line was a C-clef with C on the third line from the bottom, the bottom line was an F-clef with the F on the third line from the top. Obviously I'd just want to apply this to the courtesy bar. Is this something that will defeat even the mighty MuseScore? ;-)
In reply to Thanks - it works! I spent… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
Select clef, open the inspector, uncheck 'Show courtesy'. Do this to every clef. When you change the courtesy clef, the other clef will change also, but you can then just edit that back to its original, without it altering the other. see pic -
I'm not sure how to do the 6-line stave for the courtesy staves without it changing the main score stave. Experiment, experiment, experiment...
Good scoring,
Seven_Stars
In reply to Select clef, open the… by Seven_Stars
I'm trying to do as you say, but I can't put the bracket at bar 2; Musescore force the bracket at the courtesy system (as you can see in the pic). How can you manage to start the piece after the courtesy bars?
Thank you very much,
Paolo Martello
In reply to I'm trying to do as you say,… by Paolo Martello
Insert a horizontal frame before the second measure (select the second measure and insert the frame). One disadvantage of this is that you have a choice to show the short instrument names here, or edit them to nothing and never see the short instrument names on the following systems.
In reply to Insert a horizontal frame… by mike320
This is not a problem, the real problem is that in this way I have to insert a horizontal frame with negative width, so two bars (and the notes cointained in) overlap!
In reply to This is not a problem, the… by Paolo Martello
You don't need the measures to overlap just set the width to 0.
In reply to You don't need the measures… by mike320
This is my result if I set width = 0. I'd want the brackets to be not on the courtesy bars, but on the real first bar of the piece...
In reply to This is my result if I set… by Paolo Martello
Unfortunately, what you want is not possible. The best option is to keep the frame at its default and live with the brackets in both places. A negative width makes a mess or simply superimposes the first measure on top of the second, which is not a good thing since one of their widths will change once you start entering notes. If you goal is to be able to play from the start, you can change the actual measure duration of the first measure to something like 1/64 and make the rests invisible. There will then be a short delay while that measure is played. If the delay is still too long then enter a tempo of 900 in the measure and make it invisible. You'll never get rid of the entire delay but you can make it short enough you can live with it. The one thing you have to live with at the moment is the brackets before and after the first measure.
In reply to Unfortunately, what you want… by mike320
Ok, thank you very much! I tryed this option because I'd like to insert medieval clefs beore the modern ones. If you know another method to do it write me, please!
Thank you,
Paolo Martello
In reply to Ok, thank you very much! I… by Paolo Martello
I would use the image capture tool on a system that has the correct clefs and no brackets. I would then insert a horizontal frame before the first measure and insert the picture in the frame. You then have no playback issues either.
In reply to Thanks - it works! I spent… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
If I understand correctly, you could make this happen by using four staves - two six line, two five line - and then using Style / General / Hide empty staves. If you continue to have trouble, please attach the score with your best attempt and we can try taking it from there.
In reply to If I understand correctly,… by Marc Sabatella
OK, here's as far as I've got - see "1st 2 bars" pic. I used a horizontal frame, negatively spaced. But then, when I try to add the instrumental names, it adds them to both the courtesy clefs and the first "proper" bar after the frame. I can't find a way of getting rid of the second without getting rid of the first as well, or of making the second invisible (see the "wrong" file).
That also illustrates the problem with the six-line staves for the organ (see the "6-line organ stave" file). Can I make those six lines just for the courtesy bar/clefs, reverting to the normal 5-line stave for the first bar of the piece proper? I don't see how using two 6-line and two 5-line staves and then selecting "hide empty staves" would work. The 6- and 5-line staves are on the same line.
In reply to OK, here's as far as I've… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
You can delete the long instrument names for all of the staves and use staff text for the instrument names on the first staff. If you need space for these insert a horizontal staff before the first measure and size it to allow for the names. After that, each system will have only the short instrument names (which you can make anything you like).
In reply to OK, here's as far as I've… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
Attaching your actual score is better than the picture. But the point with Hide emptyy staves is, you have your score set up with two six line staves that are empty except for the first measure, and two five line staves that are empty on the first measure only. By hiding empty staves, only the six line staves are visible for the first measure, and only the five line staves are visible everywhere else, so they line up.
Another option, maybe simpler than all this, is to just create the initial measure as a separate score, export it as PNG via the Image Capture tool, then insert that image into a horizontal frame in your real score.
In reply to Attaching your actual score… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks all so much for your advice. I’ve attached the result below (in MuseScore this time, not as a pic!) The basic principle I’ve (re)learned here is Seven Stars’ one, which is basically: if there’s not an official MuseScore way of doing it, then cheat. And it worked! There’s one teeny tiny thing left, which is to shift the horizontal frame between the courtesy and main staves a bit to the right, to create a blank space for the main brackets. I’m finding it impossible to “grab” the frame – it won’t come up when I double click, so that I can slightly reduce the amount of negative space. This is, of course, well and truly gilding the lily, and I can easily do without it. It’s just me being all obsessive compulsive.
In reply to Thanks all so much for your… by akersten@dmu.ac.uk
Since there are only two frames, right click the first frame and select>All similar elements. Next, ctrl+click the one you DO NOT want to edit so it will become unselected. Next press ctrl+e to put the other one in edit mode (you will see the blue square you can drag around) so you can resize it.
In reply to Since there are only two… by mike320
One of these days I'll be able to offer advice like this! Thanks, Mike - worked like a charm.
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Well, I had one idea to solve the problem. Just copy the original score into a new one then, delete the original one and now you are finished. It actually worked!
Hi, I am so glad to have finally found this thread, as I have the exact same problem.
However, the proposed solution doesn't work on Musescore4, because when I make the first bracket invisible (the one before the horizontal frame), all following brackets become invisible as well. Is there an updated solution to this? See attached image.
Thanks!