Double-staccato tremolo ornament.

• Jun 30, 2014 - 00:54


I'm writing a piece for flute, clarinet and string quintet and have notice that the 'double-staccato dot' (see below*) is not present. Would there be any chance of including this in MuseScore, as I currently have to notate the passage with unwritten tremolo and demi-semiquavers.

Thank you,

*Maurice Ravel's "Introduction et Allegro" features the desired ornament - see rehearsal mark '1 (Moins lent)" on the second page, above the woodwinds.…


You are, of course, entitled to request any feature but please be aware that what you want can be created with existing tools. Whether a feature ever gets get implemented depends upon a number of factors, one of them being just how common is the feature that you are requesting.

I don't play flute (well, I can make a few noises on it but most folks wouldn't refer to it as "playing") and I don't recall seeing this notation before. Does Ravel mean a series of double-tongued notes as opposed to "double" staccato (meaning very staccato) or tremolo?

If so, it can be done using existing tools. The double-dot is available by clicking on the note and then pressing Z and selecting the double-dot glyph. The little arc over the double dots can be got by typing [Ctrl] t and then the F2 button and selecting it (from down near the bottom right). Tremolo is available from the appropriate palette. OK, so it's a fair bit of effort but, as I say, special features might be implemented if they are common enough but if they are a bit rare and you can already achieve the same with existing tools (no matter the effort required) then I wouldn't hold my breath.

Attachment Size
Double staccato.mscz 2.39 KB

I would guess this is some notation invented by the person engraving this particular edition of this particular piece, then likely abandoned and never used again. Probably intended to indicate that both notes of the tremolo are to be played staccato. If you really want to reproduce this particular notation, just add the dots manually. Easiest way is probably as staff text. For 2.0, MuseScore will support the new SMuFL standard for music fonts and include the Bravura font that is intended to include every music symbol int he world, but I don't see that one there either. so you'd probably still have to to do it manually.

In reply to by [DELETED] 5

Yes, I did see that one, and should have mentioned that possibility. It's similar, but larger, and the shape of the curved lone (as well as the name) makes it more unmistakably a fermata rather than what was originally intended. It's an option, easier than others but won't look quite the same.

I think I'd notate that passage with just a single fermata personally, and perhaps a text indication tp clarify the intent if necessary.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Hi Marc.

Thanks for letting me know.
The notes are played flutter-tongue, so the notation means to play both notes in the tremolo staccato. I'm sure the ornament was invented by the publishers, but writing out the entire phrase is extremely long-winded. The notation would be more efficient, but it could be written in a number of ways that are already present on MuseScore. I'll sort it out manually.

Thanks again.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

"Easiest way is probably as staff text."

For other situations, I'd argue that using the Z palette is slightly superior to staff text whenever it's possible. Double-dots (or other symbols) placed using the Z-palette are anchored to the note. When copied ([Ctrl] c on the double-dots) and pasted ([Ctrl] v on the target note) they get positioned in the correct place. Staff text, on the other hand, gets placed relative to the staff and needs to be re-positioned for different notes.

First time I have ever seen that in 40 years as a professional musician :)

How are you supposed to play it??

Maybe Marc's guess is correct.

I don't see the value in making a rare and apparently undocumented articulation available on the regular palette, particularly when you can make it up from other elements.

In reply to by [DELETED] 5

I used to see either slashed note, or points above to mean double the note as e e f f b b f f e e and each note lasting the half of the duration marked (both e added should last the duration marked).

it can be with double slasehd stem and that would be divided into four note the same duration (total duration should last duration of the stem).

Both notation together make me think of double the note and being staccato.

flatt tongue is generally noted with more slashed on the stem and written "flatt." "flatt tonguing" "flutterzungue" "flutter." ....
as here :…
first page, mes. 4 "2ème fois en flatt."

I just verified, in the upcoming (hoping soon) Musescore v2.....
Master Palette / Symbol , and 4th page, dot with brakets and number (not round brakets though)

It is just for now to test, not to use regularly ^^

In reply to by Zynette

Waiting for the 2.0:
I enter a tuplet, with dotted notes;
I select the dots (all similar elements), Ctrl and drag a little to the left;
I insert the second voice;
I select the dots, double-click and right arrow;
Reverse the stems of Voice 1;
Ctrl + L I insert the symbol, I select and drag.
Staccato works;
I can copy and paste.
A little bit of preparatory work and a little saving after.

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Test piggy.mscz 2.54 KB

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