How to create dotted quaver-semiquaver swing
Hi everyone, new to MuseScore from many many years of Sibelius, and I'm trying to create a piece which uses a dotted quaver-semiquaver combo to represent a crotchet-quaver triplet. So, like a swing notation, but with dotted quaver-semiquaver instead of two quavers. Sibelius called this "Shuffle" but it seems like that isn't the technical term for it everywhere so I'm getting nowhere with Googling it.
Comments
visual marking? See: https://musescore.org/en/node/266325
In reply to visual marking? See: https:/… by Shoichi
The visual marking will be helpful, but I'd also like it if I could set playback to match the swing.
In reply to The visual marking will be… by lachlanthemad
https://musescore.org/en/node/266325#Summary add an actual (invisible) Swing text.
See: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/swing
In reply to https://musescore.org/en… by Shoichi
That page doesn't say anything about using dotted quaver-semiquaver to represent the triplet though?
In reply to That page doesn't say… by lachlanthemad
I'm just trying to point you in the right direction about features.
Entered text from the palette; Right-click it to access the settings (System Text Properties/Swing Ratio)
In reply to I'm just trying to point you… by Shoichi
I've found that dialogue box but I can't make it sound anything like the "dotted quaver plus semiquaver equals crotchet-quaver triplet" I'm going for. Can you suggest what settings would help?
For me SWING is 66-33 and SHUFFLE is 75-25 so SWING is on a triplet, 3 pulses on a time with first note on 2 pulses and the second note on the third pulse, it's the Swing of the classic Jazz like Sinatra etc,, Gleen Miller. SHUFFLE 75-25 so, on 4 pulses on a time, with 3 for the first and the last for the second . Not on a triplet but on a group of 4 sixteen notes
In reply to For me SWING is 66-33 and… by Raymond Wicquart
I build a picture for the swing 66-33 , like a puzzle , with little élements in the Palett, you can do the same with the shuffle
![Ternaire 2.png]( "Ternaire 2.png")
In reply to I build a picture for the… by Raymond Wicquart
You could just take the ones from https://musescore.org/en/node/266325 instead. That How-To also explains how to build them.
Maybe we should extend that to also have images for Shuffle, dotted 8th + 16th
In reply to You could just take the ones… by Jojo-Schmitz
I'd be fully in favour of expanding it yes. (see my post below for the quick one that I threw together)
In reply to I build a picture for the… by Raymond Wicquart
What I'm trying to make is more like the attached. I built a decent .svg but I haven't figured out how to make it work in playback.
In reply to What I'm trying to make is… by lachlanthemad
Playback is done via the Swing settings of a staff- or system text
In reply to Playback is done via the… by Jojo-Schmitz
I've found that dialogue box but I can't make it sound anything like the "dotted quaver plus semiquaver equals crotchet-quaver triplet" I'm going for. Can you suggest what settings would help?
In reply to I've found that dialogue box… by lachlanthemad
So you want 75/25 to sound like 67/33, right? Or 3/1 vs. 2/1, so a setting of 2/3 = 67%
Or is my math screwed?
In reply to So you want 75/25 to sound… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes to 75/25 becoming 67/33, or 3/1 becoming 2/1. But setting the swing settings to semiquavers and 67% made 3/1 sound more like 5/1?
In reply to Yes to 75/25 becoming 67/33,… by lachlanthemad
why semiquaver? The longer notes are quavers
In reply to why semiquaver? The longer… by Jojo-Schmitz
Oh, um, I'd assumed I was choosing based on the shorter note, let me try that. tries that Nope, when I select quaver swing in swing properties, it has no effect whatsoever on dotted quaver-semiquaver notes, no matter where I set the quaver swing to.
Use menu item: Format -> Score and in the 'Swing Settings' section, select 'Sixteenth Note'. (semi-quaver)
In reply to Use menu item: Format ->… by Jm6stringer
Pretty sure that covers "two semiquavers equals one quaver-semiquaver triplet", not "dotted quaver-semiquaver equals one crotchet-quaver triplet".
In reply to Pretty sure that covers "two… by lachlanthemad
Are all your dotted quaver-semiquavers notated already, or can you notate two quavers instead? Then apply swing to the quavers which will give you (crotchet-quaver triplet) playback.
In reply to Are all your dotted quaver… by Jm6stringer
I mean the main reason I'm doing this is because I think that the shuffle style reads a thousand times easier than swing style. I'm also making this for a thirteen-year-old trumpet player and I have no idea how solid his grasp of swing is.
I made a score marking .svg file to show how I'm trying to write this swing/shuffle/whatever it is. I have yet to make it work successfully in the playback settings, though.
In reply to I made a score marking .svg… by lachlanthemad
It wasn't designed to work that way; it's not a standard/common thing to do. Normally people write eighth notes to represent swing. Writing dotted eighth/sixteenth and expecting something other than that is unusual and we don't support it.
In reply to It wasn't designed to work… by Marc Sabatella
I'm going through a book "Improvising Blues Piano" by Tim Richards and trying to make my notes using MuseScore. All the passages that are meant to swing use dotted quavers and semiquaver notation. I own tons of old-time music and most of it uses the same notation. I agree that using this notation is far more intuitive than two quavers. If the world has moved on fine, but it's a shame a simple option is not available, if only for legacy purposes.
In reply to I'm going through a book … by richard.garrod
You can still write a score using dotted 8th + 16th, nothing prevents you from doing so. Those don't need any Swings setting though, as they are swung without already
In reply to It wasn't designed to work… by Marc Sabatella
Leaping in here...I know this isn’t jazz swing, but how would I apply swing on playback to a Baroque piece such as Jesu Joy of Man’s Desiring? The accompaniment is written as dotted quaver semiquaver, but conventionally played as crotchet-quaver triplets.
In reply to Leaping in here...I know… by tykewriter
This isn't what the swing feature is designed for - it's only designed to apply to passages written with eighth notes, as jazz pieces are. There is no specific way to make one rhythm oplay like another other than that. if you need this for whatever reason, you'd need to edit the timings of the notes individually, with the piano roll editor or a plugin.
In reply to This isn't what the swing… by Marc Sabatella
Thank you for replying, Marc. What I was suggesting was a way of representing notes inégales in Baroque music. Should I start another topic on this?
In reply to Thank you for replying, Marc… by tykewriter
Yes. Links to published examples explaining the notation and preferred interpretation would help prioritize this. I can visualize what you mean but I've never heard of this actually being used. If it's idiosyncratic to one particular edition of one particular work, it's less likely to get implement than if it can be shown to be in more widespread use.
In reply to Yes. Links to published… by Marc Sabatella
Very wide spread in baroque music - Two of the four coronation anthems by Handel have movements where the dotted rhythm should be performed as triplets. Several movements of Bach, And also Handel Messiah etc.
In reply to Thank you for replying, Marc… by tykewriter
just what I was looking for and also a method of indicating at the start of the score - looks like I will have to revert to using the SVG file to indicate it seems no way of notating a cross beamed dotted note from the individual notes + Beamed groups options in the special characters table as when you add a augmentation dot it seems to put a space in the beam.