Default Time Stretch

• Jun 2, 2020 - 19:09

I was checking fermatas... their default time stretch is 1.00 (that's actually no time-stretching).
My suggestion is not a super duper one but what if elements which have time stretch ( talking about those which have no time stretching in default ) had as default a number between 3.0-5.0 (I believe those are good enough, what do you think?) ?
Also... make fermatas time-stretching work in cases like in the screenshot (I tested and saw that even with a number >1.0 it doesn't time-stretch).

Attachment Size
Screenshot from 2020-06-02 21-07-53.png 21.69 KB

Comments

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Fermatas usually make a note be played for like 2x or 3x the default duration... that's what I have learned... if 1.5 is fine so be it. I find 3 decent. 5... never tested so perhaps it's too long. But this suggestion isn't only for fermatas... if there are other symbols with similar function then it should be applied to them too if possible.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

"Which other symbols"? : I am not an expert in composing but I just thought that the possibility of other symbols with similar function may exist.
Also I still believe fermatas should make the notes be played 1.5-2x more times of the written duration : for example...
A quarter with fermata will be hold for a half and maximum a half with a dot.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

The default should stay as it is. If you have a score with say 20 instruments it is standard practice to have a fermata in each part. During playback the time stretch used is the longest of any of the fermatas. Therefore you usually adjust the time stretch on only one, on the top staff say. If the default time stretch is perhaps 1.5 but you want to use 1.3 you would have to adjust all 20 fermatas. If the default is 1 you only have to lengthen one fermata.

There is no accepted default length of a fermata and so in most cases the time stretch will need to be adjusted to a user's taste anyway. They may as well adjust it from a starting value of 1 as any from any other default.

In reply to by SteveBlower

:o Good point...
I have a middle solution: I believe everyone will accept the fact that a fermata will , THE MINIMUM, double the duration of a note ( quarter with fermata = a half ,THE MINIMUM ) ... I'm saying this because history has proved most composers put fermatas to double (the minimum again) the duration of a note.
If somebody disagrees then they don't know what a fermata is (sorry if I'm wrong). But seriously fermatas should be AT LEAST at time stretch=1.5. I CANNOT imagine who would want LESS!
Sorry... xD

In reply to by Iothes

everyone will accept the fact that a fermata will , THE MINIMUM, double the duration of a note
Definitely not!
Read again, there is no accepted standard. And 1.5 of what in case of multiple fermatas on the last note of several staves, is those note don't have the same duration? 1.5 times a whole or 1.5 times a quarter?

In reply to by Iothes

Have an orchestral score. Last note of Tuba is a whole wuth a fermata, last note of flite is a quarter with a fermata, last note of horn is a half with a fermata. What time stretch to apply now?
You can't double them all, as all need to end at the same spot

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Wa-halt I never saw that, but usually in orchestral scores all instruments at the same time will have the same duration if a fermata is above the note. To be honest I don't know if my suggestion would affect that... The horn would end where it ends , the other where it ends too etc

In reply to by Iothes

No, sure not. They have a fermata on the last note of every instrument, but those notes do not have to have the same duration and more often than not don't.
Take a choral + piano, the choir often ending with a series or tied whole notes, the last of which with a fermata, the piano with and couple quarter notes chord, the last of with with a fermata. Very common

In reply to by Iothes

But fermatas usually are applied on quarters, Halfs and wholes (rarely on eigths? Are not at all)

I don't believe anybody would want it at less than 1.5 ... If you think you can find somebody who would put it less (1.5 to 1.3 is not huge difference even for wholes I believe) then just scrap this whole story xD

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

>.< When I meant same effect I meant it in a bit more complex way than what you think ... Mathematically:
You got a "Desired Duration":
(Desired Duration with Fermata => Desired Duration x2 )
( In this case the symbol => means "at least", you probably know it but I wouldn't understand it in this case xD)

In reply to by Iothes

I think the argument would be valid if the "formula" I gave was wrong. Meaning that the time stretch( of Musescore) works with another way/formula.
Like instead of having (Duration with fermata) = duration x2
You have (Duration with fermata) = duration + (SOME duration)

In the first you multiply while in the second you sum. If it is summation my theory, and my suggestion, is trash. If though it is how I think it is then it could work.

In reply to by Iothes

I'm going to sleep, but I wanna thank you for baring with my reasoning: I haven't exactly understood your "special case" yet but I believe I'm mathematically right. By the way right now I don't care about the feature but I still believe that special case is mathematically wrong.

In reply to by Iothes

Something about pictures and 1000 words.
306230.png
You can bet your life that the intent is for the singers to both end at the same time, even though if each fermata had the same time stretch factor this would mathematically not be true.

In reply to by Iothes

It's not a flaw at all; it completely valid notation and any conductor will grasp the meaning.
A fermate duration is always up to performer/conductor interpretation (even time stretch factor 1 is a valid interpretation), nowhere does it mean the time stretch for a fermate should be constant throughout a performance and the above is one of many examples where that it so.

In reply to by Iothes

Music is not math. Otherwise there wouldn't ever be such 'nonsense' as a 6/8 time sig, or even 4/4 and 2/2.
But a computer program is pure and plain math, so here it needs to be careful to not impose math onto music where it doesn't make sense.
Fermata stretch is such a place.

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