Time signatures appearing before repeat barlines instead of after.

• Sep 18, 2020 - 03:37

When placing both repeat bars and time signatures together, it appears Musescore is automatically placing the TS in front of the barline rather than after. When dragging the TS, with Automatic placement on, the barline just moves further back, and with AP off, the score is muddled. See attached photo.

Attachment Size
Time_Signature_Repeat_bar_bug.png 43.05 KB

Comments

This is correct. The time signature change happens only once; it doesn't repeat. So it would be logically and notationally incorrect to place it within the repeat. Only in the special case where there is another change within the repeated section is it considered appropriate to do this, and then you can use the workaround of dragging plus adding leading space as necessary using the Inspector. Someday it would be nice to have an option to do that special-case override without som much manual adjustment.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I must admit I don't know what is the standard way to notate that and I just hope MuseScore follows the correct standard.
But saying
' The time signature change happens only once; it doesn't repeat.'
is not correct in general, and still MuseScore puts the the time signature before the repeat bar.
See:
time.PNG

In reply to by frfancha

As with many things in music, there is no one true absolute universal standard. MuseScore implements the one recommended and used by modern experts. But as I have acknowledged, indeed in the specific cases where the time signature does change again within the repeated section, it would be nice to have an explicit override.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I hope the E. Gould style never becomes a standard in this case. That style not only defies rules of coherency (why would you put a time and key signature before a repeat barline but not before a single or double barline?), but also makes for huge empty spaces of “not music” that look like measures of “not music”:

665796CC-3E75-4FE0-A22D-58F2B0BCEB70.jpeg

The only elements that are put before a barline when they change mid-staff are clefs. Compare this alternative (my recommendation):

28D7E84E-B039-4E3F-B08C-C04AF0508203.jpeg

Other than recommending all musicians to adopt the second option, it would be nice that Musescore could allow the user to change the order with which elements appear in these situations, so that Gould’s followers can use Gould’s style and other users can rightly deviate from it.

In reply to by m.r-botero

I strongly disagree - it’s extremely logical to put the signature on the “musically correct” side of a repeat. That could be before or after depending on the specific situation. Always placing it on the same side is guaranteed to tell a musical lie half the time.

Your example happens to be sufficiently contrived that there is no single best option. But the original case was much more straightforward, and logic is pretty clear.

So I personally will continue to favor the logical standard described by Gould, but I also completely support the option of a simple override. And if our engraving expert recommends a change of default, so be it, but I will continue to favor the more logical method in my own music.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I have to say I agree unequivocally with @m.r-botero. I find the first example clunky and the second much more straightforward and frankly correct to read. However I must agree with Marc's point, that Musescore should be a place which favours not any minority or majority of musicians and rather provides the most desirable options for all. A setting to choose the default format would be greatly appreciated from both parties.

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