Voices 2, 3 and 4 unusable? Beam and stem conflicts.

• Jul 1, 2021 - 10:04

Hi.

I'm mostly writing three-part pieces (church plain chart with simple polyphony) which I would really like to contain in one staff if possible, for readibility and space preserving issues, if the score is not complex.

So far, I've only managed to do that by using Voice 1 for Parts 1 and 2, Voice 2 for Parts 3 and 4 (occasionally).
But this creates a lot of limitations:
1) Selecting notes through Select - More... - In Selection, Same Voice would get you 2 parts selected.
2) Parts are limited to same note durations.
3) Can't use ABC input for Part 2 since it overwrites Part 1.

I feel like I should be able to use Voice 3,4 in my scores. That's why they were developed, right?

Tried these.

SCENARIO A:

Part 1 - Voice 1 (blue, default stem up)
Part 2 - Voice 2 (green, stem down)
Part 3 - Voice 3 (orange, stem up)
You intuitively want to go this way, but it messes the stem directions big time.
Especcially when you have part 2 in parallel motion to part 1.
You could mass change stem direction with X, but the stems and beams wouldn't stack anyway - which is an issue for 8ths and shorter notes. And fiddling with stem directions feels a bit overkill, for something that should be working.

Expected behaviour:
if there is 1 voice - stem direction automatic, based on the note position in staff
if there are two voices - Voice 1 has default direction up, Voice 2 has default direction down
if there are >=3 voices, Voices 1,2 should have stem default direction as up, Voices 3,4 shoud have stem default direction down.

SCENARIO B:

Part 1 - Voice 1 (blue, default stem up)
Part 2 - Voice 3 (orange, stem up)
Part 3 - Voice 2 (green, stem down)
Hacky way. Now I got the stem directions right. But they still wouldn't stack and create a mess with beams
Expected behaviour:
notes of different voices with same duration and same stem direction should have stems and beams stack together
(same way as two notes of a chord in a single voice share a single stem or beam)

attached a score with demo.

2 questions:

1) How do you actually use voices 3,4 correctly and in what music use cases?
2) Is there a way to write close-harmony-like stuff in a way that you can select the individual voice parts?
3) Do my Expected Behaviour notes above make any sense? =)

Using latest version - 3.6.2.

Attachment Size
Three_part_one_staff_voice_question.mscz 21.61 KB

Comments

• Jul 1, 2021 - 10:18

If this is something like Soprano 1, Soprano 2, Alto (1 and 2), I'd use voice 2 for Alto(s) and voice 1for the Sopranos.
Alternative is to play with the chord's X-offsets, but that'd get pretty cumbersome very soon.

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• Jul 1, 2021 - 10:28

That's what I'm doing currently and it partially does the trick. Visually looks perfect,

My issue: can't select a single part (e.g. S1 or S2). Have to shift-click for that. Gets frustrating with unison notes.

I feel like I should be able to use Voices 3,4 here, but either they aren't developed right, or I don't really understand how to use them. (tried to show it in attached demo score)

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• Jul 1, 2021 - 10:33

Well, you certainly can use up to 4 voices per staff, MuseScore allows for that and ever since.
Whether it is a good idea, whether the 4 (groups of) musicians reading from the same staff find their notes is a different issue.
Here then better use 2 staves, one for S1 and S2, and another for A1 and A2, using voice 1 and 2 on each.

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• Jul 1, 2021 - 10:54

Full-blown four-voice score calls for a 2 staff system. I totally agree here.

Now my case is with simpler three-part scores, which are easy to read and should fit into a single staff.
Attached an excerpt as example.
Shouldn't this be the case for using Voices 1,2,3,(4) instead of just Voice 1,2?

Using MuseScore Voice 1 for 2 voice parts in these cases is more like a workaround.
And the actual Voice 3, 4 functionality feels unusable as it is now because of how the stems and beams are misaligned.

So, my point is: perhaps this specific feature requires a bit of an enhancement so that it can be used properly?

Attachment Size
Screenshot_3.png 43.37 KB

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• Jul 1, 2021 - 11:21

There's the S1 with the main melody
There the S2 in parallel thirds. But could get melody variations.
There's Alto which has it's own melody line, sometimes goes in unison with S2. Could go fully independent.
(I realised it is not the best example, cause here it lacks downward stems when Alto has unisons with S2, and I should've taken a part with no unisons between S2 and A).
Could provide better examples if needed.

Anyway,
If we have a three part score, system:
1) either forces the user to use Voice 1 for S1, S2.
(usability issues: can't use ABC for note input, can't select individual voice parts)
2) or forces him to go 2 staves, which isn't optimal for a more simple scores.

Using Voice 3, 4 is not an option because of how the system behaves with those.
I think this functionaity requires a bit of an enhancement to be used properly.
(see my Expected Behaviour in the original post)

PS. I really love Musescore. ;)
Just wanted to share a possible gap / usability issue here which is not of a high priority, but seems useful.

Attachment Size
Screenshot_3_stems_corrected.png 59.94 KB

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• Jul 1, 2021 - 12:21

The "Parts" functionality wouldn't work with the proposed approach either.
If you use Voice 1 for voice parts S1, S2, you can't generate a Part for a single voice part - S1 or S2, you're stuck with 2 vocal parts in the Part.
(to create a Part you select an Instrument/Staff and a Voice)

PS. in a nutshell - that's what I'd like to be able to do - to have a way of quickly create exports of individual voice parts in the score.

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