pasting Voice 1 overwrites lyrics & staff text

• Oct 16, 2021 - 04:50

Hi folks!

I'm not sure if this is a bug or a training issue.

I have a score laid out with lyrics and chord symbols, but no notes. They lyrics and chord symbols are all attached to rests to get me started.

Now I'm going back and adding the notes in. After I add notes to the first 2 measures, I want to start copying and pasting them in various places throughout the score. In order to keep from overwriting the chord symbols and lyrics, I use the Selection Filter and turn off everything but Voice 1, and then I copy/paste.

At this point, the chord symbols that were already at the destination stay intact, as expected. But the lyrics at the destination get blown away. But again, they Lyrics checkbox in the selection filter was unchecked.

I don't see any way around this. I'm going to have to re-enter all my lyrics.

Am I doing something wrong here?


Comments

You'd need to change your workflow, notes first, then lyrics.
While lyrics for rests are meanwhile possible, it is very cumbersome to enter, like space, - and _ don't switch to the next rest, and, as you just found out, they get lost when changing a rest to a note

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

> You'd need to change your workflow, notes first, then lyrics.

Thanks to you and jeetee for the replies.

But I think both are missing the question about whether it’s a bug. It’s seems like it to me. The selection filter is not working as expected, and the way it in fact does for the chord symbols. So it would be nice to please get that fixed.

As for putting lyrics on rests, there are several reasons to do that. One is that the rhythm of the lyrics does not line up with the notes on the staff. This is common for everyone in the band who is not the singer. In the use case I’ve had a lot, I’m making a score for a keyboard or guitar, and want to add enough lyrics to help them know where they are in the song. If the piano rhythm doesn’t line up with the lyric rhythm, I might add a second voice with rests to attach lyrics to. And some measures have NO notes for keyboard, and I still want to add lyrics to keep track of song flow. In that case, I know of no other way than to attach lyrics to rests.

Thanks again. Looking forward to the fix.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

> change your workflow

I guess I didn't say much about this comment.

I don't WANT to change my workflow. The software shouldn't be handcuffing me. I like to lay out the form of the song first before I figure out how to score it. I use the form, guided by the lyrics, to figure out where I'm at. Then I create the notes. Constraints first, creativity last.

But even if I were forced to a workflow where lyrics were last, leaving this bug intact is still not a solution, because that workflow assumes I will never make a mistake with the notation or want to change it later, after the lyrics are there. Then when I go to copy/paste, lyrics get blown away.

In fact, that happened yesterday.

Any by the way, it also blew away staff text. So I guess this isn't a bug that strictly affects lyrics.

Thanks.

In reply to by reggoboy

There's not much point in fighting against the design of a program, adjust to its workflow or look for another program. Lyrics for rests are a relative new options and usualy pretty pointless. And they come with some more or lest (and admittendly annoying) restrictions.

In reply to by reggoboy

I think it's unfair to say the program is "handcuffing" you. Programs are designed to work the way they are design to work, this is true of every program ever. One needs to learn how the program works, and work that way. Usually there are multiple ways of working supported by a program, and thaty's true of MuseScore as well - not just one way, but dozens of ways that work. but that doesn't mean every single thing anyone could ever think of trying should be expected to work. it's just not realistic, nor is it good software design.

Anyhow, as mentioned, it's not a bug. Copy/paste is designed to replace the contents of the destination and most of the time, that's exactly what you want - it would in fact be a disaster in many cases, if the old contents were not cleared out first.

If you wish to take lyrics you originally applied to some rests - or to some notes - and now apply those instead or in addition to other notes, MuseScore allows for this, very simply - just copy and paste the lyrics to their new destination. So for example, click the first lyric, shift+click the last, then copy, then click the destination, then paste. Same if you wish to preserve staff text. And no, it's not the case that this assumes you don't make mistakes - but it does assume the program doesn't handcuff into using copy/paste as you only way of fixing those mistakes. Luckily, it doesn't. Tons of ways of fixing mistakes that don't involve copy/paste.

If you attach your score and describe in more detail the specific problem you are trying to solve, we can understand and assist better.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

“ Anyhow, as mentioned, it's not a bug. Copy/paste is designed to replace the contents of the destination and most of the time, that's exactly what you want - it would in fact be a disaster in many cases, if the old contents were not cleared out first.”

Sure. It would be a disaster IF you had done a full copy/paste. But I did a Selective copy/paste where I EXPLICITLY disabled the lyrics checkbox. So you can argue that it’s neither a big nor a design flaw. But there’s nothing to discuss about the fact that it contradicts the user interface, creating a data loss result that the user clearly intended to avoid.

In reply to by reggoboy

The selection filter affects what is selected, and thus what is copied. It does not affect the factor that postings completely replaces notes (and everything attached to them) with new notes (and those attached things you didn't filter out). Consider again that the passages may be wildly different, different rhythms, perhaps different portions of the song entirely. How would you expect to handle pasting a passage of quarter notes onto a passage of whole notes, or vice versa? Again, under most circumstances one wouldn't want to replace only "some" of the original content when pasting.

So no - it's not a bug, nor is it a flaw - it works exactly the way most people would want it most of the time. For the unusual special cases where you want a different behavior, we provide controls for that, as described. Pasting by defintion loses data - the data in the destination is replaced. That is the entire point of the operation. Nor does it contradict the UI - if you mean, the state of the selection filter, again, that affects the contents of the original selection and thus what you copied into the clipboard, but it does not change the fact that pasting a range selection necessarily replaces what was in the destination.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanks again for your comment.

“ If you wish to take lyrics you originally applied to some rests - or to some notes - and now apply those instead or in addition to other notes, MuseScore allows for this,”

If you reread my post, this is not at all what I’m trying to do. I don’t want to move the lyrics; they are fine where they are, albeit attached to rests. I’m trying to selective copy some freshly created notes to other parts of the score where lyrics already exists, and that process is actually deleting the lyrics rather than just replacing the rests with notes.

This morning I woke up wondering if the workaround couldn’t just be that I place the rest-anchored lyrics in an unused Voice 4. Then maybe selective pasting Voice 1 won’t overwrite them? I’m at work now so I can’t try it out…

In reply to by reggoboy

It is what you are wanting to achieve as far as I can tell. In one place, you have the lyrics you want. In a different place, for some reason that's still not at all clear, you have the notes you want. You can these two things joined, You were trying to do it by copying the notes onto the lyrics. I'm saying, that doesn't work, for very good reasons. But the other way around - copying the lyrics to the notes - does work. And when you're done, you can copy that entire passage to whatever location you want, including putting them in the location where for whatever reason you initially entered rests.

for this particular score, since you already have created this highly unusual situation, your alternate method would "work" in the sense of you'd have both lyrics and notes in the same measures, yes. But it wouldn't attached the lyrics to the notes - they'd still be attached to the rests. So you'd have to then mark the rests invisible, and then still, the alignment wouldn't be correct with other lyrics that were entered more normally into the proper voice.

So the bottom line is, if you don't want to create more work for yourself, don't enter lyrics onto rests if the real goal is to have notes. You enter the lyrics onto the notes in the first place. If you don't know the actual pitches, fine, just enter any pitches you want (eg, using Rhythm mode) then get the pitches right later using Repitch mode.

Lyrics on rests seems to be close to the hardest way to start off.
If you like to enter rhythm before pitch; then you'd be better off using rhythm input mode followed by repitch input mode, which won't loose your lyrics.

A possible feasible approach for your current situation is to add the instrument once more into the score, write your notes there; then copy-paste the lyrics/chords over from the rests instrument and then remove the rests instrument again.

@reggoboy
I know this suggestion won't fully answer your problem, but it might help a bit.

  1. If you know the rhythm but not the notes, you can repeatedly enter the same note, varied only with the changing rhythm - leaving rests where necessary.
  2. Then you can enter the lyrics as they should be entered (Ctrl+L), using a space or hyphen to skip to the next note. How you enter lyrics for the rests is up to you.
  3. You cannot copy-and-paste the melody into your score without wiping out the lyrics. But what you can do is to switch to Repitch Mode and rapidly enter the correct pitch for each note already in the score - and this operation preserves the lyrics.
    See: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/note-input-modes#repitch

I typeset a lot of hymns and anthems, set out on four staves (S A T B). Very often, I can enter the notes and lyrics just for the top stave, then copy and paste entire systems to the other three staves. Switch into Repitch Mode, correct the notes for Alto, Tenor and Bass staves - much quicker!

You wrote:
In the use case I’ve had a lot, I’m making a score for a keyboard or guitar, and want to add enough lyrics to help them know where they are in the song.

OK, so it appears you are using lyric snippets as 'faux rehearsal marks' - to help the instrumentalists track their position in the song.

If the piano rhythm doesn’t line up with the lyric rhythm, I might add a second voice with rests to attach lyrics to. And some measures have NO notes for keyboard, and I still want to add lyrics to keep track of song flow.

OK, so why not add/copy/paste lyrics as staff text? Staff text does care about rhythm.

EDIT: Staff text does not care about rhythm.

In reply to by Jm6stringer

Thanks for the reply.

“ OK, so it appears you are using lyric snippets as 'faux rehearsal marks' - to help the instrumentalists track their position in the song.”

That’s a good way to put it. It’s a very common use case whenever you’re supplying score sheets to musicians, to help them follow along.

“so why not paste lyrics as staff text? Staff text does care about rhythm.”

Staff text is less structured, so I use it as last resort. But maybe that’s a good idea in this case. Let me give that a try. 😊

Hmm, although I did find that staff text was blown away by pasting just Voice 1. See my notes above.

In reply to by reggoboy

Indeed, the approach I outlined earlier would be better here as well - copy the staff text to the notes, not vice versa. That works because there is a significant difference between copying a list of elements versus copying a range. A range is defined by a start / end and paste replaces everything within that range with whatever is in the clipboard. Copying a list leaves the destination in place but adds the elements in the list to that destination.

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