Persist voltas after jump

• Apr 10, 2022 - 16:11

Hi! I'm arranging a worship song my father wrote for piano. It has a somewhat complex structure, and I wonder if it is possible to get it to play back correctly in MuseScore.
Here is an example of something that doesn't work like I would like it to:

I would like this to play back as: C B A G A F B A G A D
However, with 'Play repeats' off on the Dal Segno it unrolls to: C B A G A F B A F
And with 'Play repeats' on it unrolls to: C B A G A F B A G A F
I'm particularly confused that it doesn't get to the D in either of the cases. Do you think it's possible to let this play back the way I'd like it to? If so, and you let me know, then I'll have another look at the actual score I'm making. ;)

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Repeat_test.mscz 5.23 KB

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• Apr 11, 2022 - 09:03

Hi DanielR, this is not an option. Of course, with just one measure, this is no problem, but in the actual song this part is 16 measures long. In the songbook I'm basing this off, repeats are very rarely actually repeated, because it includes ~100 songs in one edition: hence, they need to be displayed in a compact manner.

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• Apr 10, 2022 - 17:25

Your confusion stems from assuming a jump increases the repeat count, while it does not; hence the "4th" repeat is never reached.
The other part that makes playback happen as it does now, is because you have not yet adjusted the play count from the default of 2 for the end repeat barline in there. The result is that MuseScore doesn't correctly asses the "final" repeat number that it must take after the jump. Notice the difference in playback if you have "play repeats" disabled for the jump and adjust the play count to the normal expected value of 3 or the less expected version of 4.

I think that for a human musician, the expected order is fairly clear. The solution for playback would then be to have some additional hidden instruction for MuseScore. In this particular case the following:

  • fix the play count of the end repeat barline measure to be 3
  • disable "play repeats" on the D.S.
  • Add a varsegno to the start repeat measure and hide it.
  • Add a "To Coda" to the last measure before the voltas (in this example the 3rd measure with the A) and hide it
  • Add a "Coda" to the start of volta 4 and hide it
  • Add a "D.S. al Coda" to the end repeat barline measure (end of volta 1,3). Adjust its "Jump To" target using the Inspector (F8) to become the "varsegno" instead of the segno. Hide the jump instruction.
Attachment Size
331138-Repeat_test.mscz 5.5 KB

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• Apr 11, 2022 - 09:15

Thank you. I am a bit disappointed that the voltas don't work like this, but I can understand that this is not the use case for which they were set up. I did read somewhere that jumps and repeats are expected to be reworked in MuseScore 4, so I'm curious what will happen with it. I do think that I follow here the guidelines of the songbook, and I'm glad you think the expected order is clear.
I think that with a bunch of D.S. al Coda variations I should be able to make anything like this work, then... I'll get back to you if I run into another problem in getting the full song to work!

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• Apr 12, 2022 - 20:26

Thank you for your help; I think I mostly get how it works now (I just don't know what 'play count' means yet).
However, I've ran into a problem again later, because it doesn't seem to be possible to chain jumps. It looks like a jump must go to a label, and can't go to another jump. Hence, I can't get this to work.
(the formatting's getting messy but that doesn't matter; in the actual piece the parts are several measures long, of course, leaving more room for everything)

Am I missing another trick? :)
As to your question: I probably checked a dozen MuseScore pages in hopes of finding a solution to my problem, and I wouldn't know where I read that the system was going to overhauled for MuseScore 4, sorry.
In case anyone thinks I'm making this up, here's the song structure in words:
prelude - verse - chorus (x2) - interlude - verse - chorus (x2) - bridge - chorus (x4) - coda
It's complex, but it's not unheard of, I'd say. In the actual score I have some more jumps set up, because I don't want, for instance, the entire bridge to be under a volta, for readability. So I have a single measure under the volta that says 'to letter C', and the bridge itself is on a separate page.

Attachment Size
Repeat_test_2.mscz 6.59 KB

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• Apr 15, 2022 - 16:42

I'm of course not sure why you think my volta indications do not match my text description, but in the actual piece there is one extra jump, because I didn't want to put the entire bridge in the voltas.
I am not considering changing the layout of the score for playback; for an official recording I would perform myself, anyway. Do you think it is indeed impossible to make the repeat test 2 play back correctly?
Thanks for your time!

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• Apr 17, 2022 - 21:15

I've removed your volta's because to me (as a musician) it was less clear.
But by all means, you can add them back (or use non-functional system lines instead) mark the jumps invisible and get the exact notation you wanted visibly, but also the "correct" invisible notation to drive playback.

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• Apr 12, 2022 - 19:14

I thought that even if I couldn't get the repeats to work properly, I could just finish the piece and print it... but unreachable parts of score actually cannot be played back. That is awkward!

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