Alternate instruments or introduce the possibility to edit the appearance of intruments in score
Some instruments in MU are notated with octave clefs such as piccolo, guitar and contrabass. However correct, this doesn't follow accepted conventions of notating these instrument without the octave clef even in scores in C. I think it would be useful in that regard to add alternate instruments which offer the possibility to choose between the correct and conventional notation. In Sibelius some alternate instruments for instance are baritone saxophone which has more than one option on how it is going to be notated in the score. In MU we could have two piccolo for instance, something like "piccolo (octave clef)" and "piccolo (treble - octave transposing)" or with better names. Alternatively it could be introduced the option to edit some aspects of the instrument such as the type of clef (or create custom instruments altogether)
Comments
For guitar their is already an option for Treble Clef. For other instruments, the octave clefs show in the main score when Concert Pitch is selected. Otherwise, and in Parts, they just show normal clefs.
In reply to The octaves show in the main… by underquark
Maybe I was unclear.
My point is: for many octave-transposing instrument it is commonly accepted to display them in treble/bass clef (no octave) even in scores in C (concert pitch score). Usually contrabass are notated in bass clef (as it is a given that the instrument is transposing) rather than in lower octave bass clef. Same goes for piccolo that is conventionally notated in non-transposing treble in non-transposing scores.
My feature request concerns the addition of such instruments with the possibility to show their respective non-transposing clef even in concert pitch. I believe this would be a simple fix to achieve since it needs just the addition of a few instruments where the clef to display is tweaked to appear always non-transposing even if the pitch sounds an octave higher
In reply to Maybe I was unclear. My… by sberla
You can create your own instrument definitions that will achieve what you are asking for as described here https://musescore.org/en/node/15803 and here https://musescore.org/en/handbook/developers-handbook/references/instru…
It looks a bit daunting at first but it's really quite straight forward once you get into it.
In reply to You can create your own… by SteveBlower
Thanks for your help! I have been looking into the xml for piccolo but I haven't figured out a way to have the treble clef in concert pitch without having the notes displayed an octave higher. I would like to have the notes displayed in concert pitch exactly at the same hights as in the transposing score.
In reply to Thanks for your help! I have… by sberla
I don't understand what you are trying to achieve then. The whole point of displaying a score in concert pitch is that the sounding and written pitches are the same. The other option is to display notes at different pitch to written pitch; it has to be one or the other. MuseScore displays with written and sounding pitches the same if the concert pitch button is selected and displays a written pitch possibly different to the sounding pitch if so defined in the instruments.xml file when the concert pitch button is not selected. In the case of the piccolo with the concert pitch not selected the pitch sounds one octave higher than what is written and that is what a player or conductor would expect to see. With the concert pitch button selected what is written is the actual sounding pitch - i.e.written an octave higher than when the button is not selected; this can be useful when composing or analysing harmonies but is of little use otherwise.
Perhaps it would be useful if you could provide a bit more detail on your use case - what you are trying to achieve and why.
In reply to I don't understand what you… by SteveBlower
I am trying to achieve only what is common practice for scores. I haven't yet seen a single orchestral score (in c) where the contrabbasses have a lower octave clef. Same goes with piccolo, which is commonly scored in treble key written an octave lower than what it sounds also in non-transposing scores. Sibelius for instance scores these instruments without the octave clef, just because is common practice to score like this. I would only like to see such a feature implemented, to be on par with currently accepted scoring practices
In reply to I am trying to achieve only… by sberla
You can use the staff/Part properties to change the octave transposition and then apply the other clef as desired..
In reply to I am trying to achieve only… by sberla
It is true that in Sibelius, piccolo and double bass display the same notes and clefs whether or not the score is transposing. The pitches playback correctly, also.
I see that if I start a new score in MuseScore, piccolo and double bass pitch display and playback are the same regardless of concert pitch being on or off. Not an octave up or down. Concert pitch does display the clefs with octaves. But you wouldn't hand out scores in concert pitch. So I'm not sure what the problem is.
Unless the OP is loading scores from some other source.
In reply to It is true that in Sibelius,… by bobjp
I am most probably going to hand in a concert pitch score. I am working on an atonal piece and it would be probably clearer for the conductor to have the instruments in concert pitch rather than a transposing score (in which a key signature for the transposing instruments would make no sense, and transposing them without adding a key signature would probably confuse things up)
In reply to I am most probably going to… by sberla
You can add an atonal key signature, the one in the pallet with s grey (and invisible when printed) X. This also will be invisible in transposing Instruments' parts but will ensure that their notes will be correctly transposed and include appropriate accidentals.
I would also recommend that you have the conductor's score transposed. The benefit is that the conductor can see exactly what the player of a transposing instrument sees. It makes it easier to tell the clarinettist that the G# in measure 20 should be accented for example.
In reply to I am most probably going to… by sberla
Although as a musician who happens to conduct, I do like concert pitch scores, I think you'll find the majority of conductors will say, please have it transposed. It's more important to conductors to to be able to instantly communicate with plays about the notes they are playing and to be able to spot range issues etc than to be able to perform harmonic analysis on the score or anything else for which concert scores might otherwise be preferred. But if you have a specific conductor in mind, best to ask them their own preference.
Transposed with no key signature is absolutely by far the most common way for atonal music to be published; not sure why you'd say this would confuse things.