chord symbols type appears upper case until hitting return key, then becomes lower case
i'm entering chord symbols as lower case and expecting them to be converted to upper case, as is my setting in Style: Automatic Capitalization is checked. This is working with SUS and and MI but not for DIM or ALT or MIN which appear lower case. Is there a fix for this? Maybe a custom XML file i need to create and load?
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Comments
The capitalization option is for the roots, not anything else, and has to do with those countries in which minor chords are represented in lower case letters. For everything else in chord symbols, this setting has no relevance - it's all WYSIWYG. If you want upper case "DIM", you'd need to type that.
In reply to The capitalization option is… by Marc Sabatella
The issue with doing what you suggest is that typing capitals for something like FDIM7 is that it looks just like that... "DIM" is as large as the Chord root F and so it makes it hard to read and also looks unprofessional. Is there a setting that would allow me to adjust the chord type text size or just select "small-caps"?
PS: i'm also curious as to why when editing the chord type it appears in small-caps just like how i'd like it to look, but upon entering with the return key, the text turns into lower-case letters.
In reply to The issue with doing what… by jls
If you want a custom rendering with different sized characters etc, you'd need to create a custom chord description XML file. Personally, if the goal is to look professional, I recommend not trying to force capital DIM at all, since I'm not aware of any publisher that does this. But it's possible someone does and if you are working for or trying to emulate them, then the custom XML file would be the way.
As for why the rendering changes for you, hard to say from just pictures - attaching the actual score is always better. And precise steps to reproduce the problem. But the Jazz chord symbol style does use special glyphs for certain symbols like dim.
In reply to If you want a custom… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for those details. Much appreciated! I'm coming from Sibelius and trying to emulate (customized) styles that were setup with that program. Sibelius does allow excellent control for all the elements of Chord symbols, including the size of each part (chord root, chord type, extensions, alterations) and if they are raised or at baseline, stacked, dashed or slashed, etc. There are broad controls for all the elements as well as the option to redefine a custom layout per individual chord type. If you were inclined to add features to MuseScore i would say it'd be worth a look to see what Sibelius offers.
In reply to Thanks for those details… by jls
There is already much work done toward providing additional controls in a future release. But that too is based on emulating established standards used by major publishers; I don't know if things like alls-small-caps "DIM" is on the list of things to make available. If you can post a link to a reference from a major publisher or other source showing that usage, it's more likely to be considered. Meanwhile, the chord description file remains the option for non-standard customizations.
In reply to There is already much work… by Marc Sabatella
The New Real Book by Sher Music Co. consistently uses small-cap MI, MA, SUS throughout all their charts & books. They do however use the small "o" instead of DIM. If you were to implement the small-cap option in a future release I would think it useful to be able to apply it to DIM. I learned from the great instructor Ray Brown it is best to be as clear as possible in one's charts so as to not waste valuable rehearsal time and i believe he advocated for the use of DIM over the small circle which could be overlooked or confused for a sharp symbol, especially when a chart gets copied and reduced in size.
If you could point me to the details for how to implement the MuseScore chord description file you mentioned, it would be appreciated.
In reply to The New Real Book by Sher… by jls
Right, and it's the New Real Book specifically that we are emulating currently, and there will be explicit options for that in the work being done. It's the "DIM" that seems very odd to me. I agree it's best to be as clear as possible - which is why I would advocate against anything not commonly used in published music. Your readers have probably never seen DIM, why risk confusing them with that?
Anyhow, there is no official documentation on how to create custom chord description files, but it's not hard to do simple things like this. In Format / Style / Chord Symbols, change the appearance to Custom, then you'll see where you can grab the default jazz XML file. Copy it into your own personal Styles folder edit it with a text editor, and see if you can sort things out from the comments within the file. Also do searches of this forum for previous discussions about these files. And ask questions if you get stuck. Should be a one-line change once you get the basic method sorted out.
In reply to Right, and it's the New Real… by Marc Sabatella
It looks like "chords_jazz.xml" is supposed to be located in the MuseScore Styles folder, but in my case none is found there, or anywhere on my computer. It looks like there is one on Github site but i want to make sure i download the one that is intended for my MuseScore v. 3.6.2 (mac). Can you point me to where to get the right XML file?
As for DIM, i agree it is a special case and probably one that comes from having read many sloppy handwritten charts in which small circles can look like dashes, flats or sharps... further complicated by dim-lit venues and aging eyes! This would certainly be less of an issue with a nicely printed MuseScore, though to me it seems worth having the option to be more clear. It sounds like that option will be available via the XML file in any case.
PS: i have found that musicians who are not familiar with the jazz symbols/conventions still know what chord is intended with "DIM".
In reply to It looks like "chords_jazz… by jls
On macOS it should be within the application package, not sure how that works. But the one on GitHub should be fine.
And yes, I agree people know what "DIM" means. But it's pretty much unheard of to capitalize it. This runs counter to how diminished chords are normally notated. So there will be c aompletely avoidable bit of cognitive dissonance. kINd oF lIkE hOw tHEre Is iN tHIs sENTenCe.
In reply to On macOS it should be within… by Marc Sabatella
I read through the other posts on chords_jazz.xml and found the file in the MuseScore bundle (right click on MuseScore 2.app and choose "Show package contents") in /Applications/MuseScore2.app/Contents/Resources/plugins. I still couldn't get it to do what i wanted to -- maybe i need to spend more time at it. The "cchords_muse.xml" and other similar named files seem to actually have the control i'm after but i don't know if and how that one ties into the rendering. The comments at the top of cchords_muse.xml states: "If you wish to customize how your chords are typed and displayed, then edit this file."
As for the style of DIM discussion, it seems most publishers use(d) lower case "mi" (or "m" or –") and "maj" (or "ma" or "M") but then Sher decided to use small-cap MI and MA for the New Real Book. why? did they say this runs counter what people are used to? or did they say, this is easier to read or is preferable in some other way? in any case, they went against the convention of the time and now it is a new convention. i don't see how going from lower case dim to small-cap DIM is any different or would create cognitive dissonance. I think Sher chose not to do it because the function of the DIM chord in jazz is most often as a passing chord and as such occurs over one beat, so there just isn't much room to print chord symbol root-quality-extension using DIM compared to the "o" symbol.
In reply to I read through the other… by jls
MuseScore 2? That's pretty ancient history, MuseScore 3 has been out for years, and 4.0 is around the corner. Probably not worth updating to 3 now with 4 imminent, but maybe don't sweat this until 4.0 does come out.
Sher uses small caps MA and MI, btw, because the Brandt/Roemer standard calls for it. This is the same standard followed by most major publishers of jazz ensemble music.
Anyhow, it's not that one can't use DIM, it's that as far as I know, literally no publisher in the word does. So it seems odd to want to go out of your way to do something so at odds with established practice.
In reply to MuseScore 2? That's pretty… by Marc Sabatella
Actually, i'm running MuseScore 3. That path was copied from a post i dug up in order to locate the file on my system. i just copied-pasted it without thinking that it had MuseScore 2 in it.
I agree it makes sense to wait to see the new chord symbol controls in 4.0 before spending more time on a customization of the current version. It will likely provide everything i'll need :)
In reply to Actually, i'm running… by jls
Well, it's not that 4.0 will have new controls - as I aid, that work is begun but won't be in 4.0. Maybe 4.1 or later. I just meant, it's maybe a bit pointless to work on customizing a MuseScore 2 installation only to then update to MuseScore 4 soon and need to redo the work.
Actually making the change it pretty simple. Copy the correct file (definitely use chords_jazz, not one of the ancient files - cchords_muse predates MuseScore 2 even). What you'd want is add a
<sym name="DIM"/>definition in the block where you see a whole bunch of similar ones. There are the strings that get rendered in small caps but don't have dedicated glyphs in the MuseJazz font the way MA and MI do.In reply to Well, it's not that 4.0 will… by Marc Sabatella
thanks! that is helpful :)