Is there a way to change stretch in a number of measures simultaneously in Musescore 4?
I find no method to do the above; I can change stretch only one bar at a time. I like parts to have some more stretch in many cases because fast passages are much easier to read (and to sight read!) if the notes are some distance form each other.
Comments
You should be able to select a number of contiguous measures and change stretch simultaneously for them all. Just be sure you delete any (nearby) system breaks which may be preventing measures from smoothly flowing to/from different systems as the stretch of the selection increases/decreases.
Attaching a score which you find problematic is the best bet for a more customized solution.
In reply to You should be able to select… by Jm6stringer
You may also find that playing with Format>Style>Measure>Spacing ratio helps (replace "measure" "bar" for UK localisation).
Normally shorter notes get less horizontal space than longer ones but rather more space than a direct proportionality of duration to space. It is actually an exponential relationship. If you decrease the value of the spacing ratio you will find that the spaces become more equal - in other words the space between shorter notes will approach the space between longer notes. If the ratio is set to 1 every note has the same spacing. If it is set to 2 notes are spaced in exact proportion to their duration (halving the duration halves the distance to the next note).
In reply to You should be able to select… by Jm6stringer
@jm6stringer: This is how it works in Musescore 1 - 3. Doing this in Musescore 4 has a different result: The stretch is enhanced in the last measure of the chosen segment. The other measures keep their original parameter. There is a passage in the new handbook that appears to be explaining a way to move the stretch window along from measure to measure and (semi-)efficiently alter the stretch at each measure. I have not been able to reproduce that. In order to make the change of measure 1 stick I have to click "ok" whereupon the window closes and have to move to the next measure and go through all the clicks to change the stretch there.
@SteveBlower: I have played with the minimal distance between notes. It works but I used to get better results more easily in the old versions by just adding to the stretch for the whole part, then maybe re-compressing some sections if necessary. It's all about the right compromise between page turns and readability and about the locations for page turns.
In reply to This is how it works in… by azumbrunn
Please note the comment from @jm6stringer:
"Attaching a score which you find problematic is the best bet for a more customized solution."
In reply to Please note the comment from… by DanielR
This is a problem that comes up with any score for me. I don't see the value of an individual score here. I just would like to know a reasonably efficient work around.
In reply to This is a problem that comes… by azumbrunn
Yes, but your particular genre of music may have its own particular layout problems. Without seeing what you are dealing with and what you are trying to achieve we can only guess and give general advice based on what we do when we are trying to solve our layout problems which may well be different to yours.
In reply to This is a problem that comes… by azumbrunn
Ok if you have this problem with any of your score, why do you refuse to attach one of them?
It is a necessary step to be able to help you.
We all get the expected behaviour that selecting a range of measures (or just all of them by CTRL A) makes stretch changes applied to our selection, not just the last measure of it.
We need to compare with what is happening for your score(s).
In reply to Ok if you have this problem… by frfancha
Here is a score. It does not matter which of mine; they all behave the same (as they should). I try command A, then control click. At this point all measures are highlighted. Then I select measure properties. At this point the highlighting changes; only the last measure is highlighted, the only one that accepts changes now.
Again, this is MS4. The same procedure in MS 3 allowed to change measure properties in a range of measures.
In reply to Here is a score. It does… by azumbrunn
The issue you're describing has nothing to do with stretch.
It has to do with opening the property panel.
I don't know if the behaviour you're are describing - MuseScore changing your selection to one single measure when opening properties from popup menu - is "working as designed" or not.
But I do know you don't need that step.
You could do either one of these :
-open the properties panel by F8
-open the properties panel from the general view menu instead of the popup one
-don't use the properties panel at all and change stretch with the shortcuts {}
In reply to The issue you're describing… by frfancha
I have the property panel almost always open. I can select measures and look at the property panel. It allows me to change some things but not stretch. Changing stretch is not possible in the property panel, only in the measure property dialogue (this has always been the case in earlier versions too, whatever the name of what is now the property panel). And the measure property dialogue appears to have lost the ability to deal with a selection of more than one measure.
In reply to I have the property panel… by azumbrunn
@Azumbrunn
Ok my bad.
I regularly change the stretch, but never with the properties, always with the shortcuts, so I wasn't correctly remembering in which panel it was.
So the measure properties panel only allows to work one measure at a time, that's pretty poor programming :-(
But I just checked in MuseScore 3 (for real, not just reading the handbook), and the behaviour of that panel is exactly the same in V3.
So, no, you were not able to use that exact method to change multi-measures stretch in MuseScore 3, that's just impossible (To be complete: tested in 3.6.2 - I have not tested all sub-version of V3, only the latest official one)
Surely you were using the shortcuts, { and } in V3, don't know if they are the same in V4.
In the current state of MuseScore the answer(s) is then:
-use the shortcuts
-fill in a github request to make that measure properties panel able to work on multi-measures selection
P.S. Not tested in V4 nor practical knowledge of V4 as I don't have installed V4, I won't until the V3 features I use every day are finally implemented in V4. I could have been tempted to try MuseSound, but installing an admin service for this (MuseHub)? No thank you, I'm not crazy.
In reply to @Azumbrunn Ok my bad. I… by frfancha
Now that you mention it: I did indeed use the shortcuts. I began the way I described in some earlier version (3.1.?). Then I discovered the shortcuts and stuck with them. Thanks for figuring this out!
So I went to the shortcut window in the preferences (in MS4). I searched "{" and the result was "decrease layout stretch". Hurrah!
Then I tried the shortcut. Selected a range of measures and applied either of them. No success. ???
I am attaching my "test score" if anybody wants to try.
In reply to Now that you mention it: I… by azumbrunn
What you can do to confirm your shortcut is indeed not working would be:
Take a measure property panel and make sure of the current stretch value, and that it isn't already the minimum.
Then try to reduce stretch using the shortcut on that measure.
Check again the stretch value in the property panel : has it been decreased or not ?
If not then you have a true issue with your shortcut, and I think I have seen mention of that issue in past forum posts on V4
Try then to assign another key combo to that action as a workaround.
In reply to Now that you mention it: I… by azumbrunn
You wrote:
Then I tried the shortcut. Selected a range of measures and applied either of them. No success. ???
I am attaching my "test score" if anybody wants to try.
Exactly what range? Please provide details.
C'mon, you attached 8 pages of music, 710 measures and don't even specify where/how you applied the shortcut
(which works for me in your attachment).
Note:
Sometimes you may have to press { several times in a row to notice any result, depending on how many measures are selected and the relative note densities of those measures.
In reply to You wrote: Then I tried the… by Jm6stringer
@jm6stringer
Forget about "seeing the result"
Just checking if the stretch number is changing or not in the properties panel is the best way to check whether the shortcut is working or not
In reply to @jm6stringer Forget about … by frfancha
@frfancha
What?...Forget about "seeing the result"?
Using the stretch keyboard shortcuts - "{" and "}" - gives visual feedback in the score. I should think that is desirable.
The Op's question was:
Is there a way to change stretch in a number of measures simultaneously in Musescore 4?
Earlier you wrote:
I regularly change the stretch, but never with the properties, always with the shortcuts...
Me too. That's the easiest way.
This question:
What is the best way to check whether the shortcut is working or not?
is what you have just now also answered.
In reply to Now that you mention it: I… by azumbrunn
@azumbrunn...
Are you typing the shortcuts "{" and "}" on a QWERTY keyboard?
In reply to Here is a score. It does… by azumbrunn
"Again, this is MS4. The same procedure in MS 3 allowed to change measure properties in a range of measures." [...] And the measure property dialogue appears to have lost the ability to deal with a selection of more than one measure."
You are wrong. Never. Whatever the version (4,3,2)
I quote handbook V4: "The Measure properties dialog allows you to adjust various properties of an individual measure—such as visibility, duration, numbering and width ("Stretch") : https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/measure-properties (on this image: properties for measure 4)
Handbook V3: I quote: "To edit the properties of a measure, right-click an empty part of the measure and select Measure Properties...:"
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/measure-operations#properties ( properties for measure 5)
Ditto handbook V2; https://musescore.org/en/handbook/2/measure-operations#properties (properties for measure 2)
In reply to This is how it works in… by azumbrunn
I find that if there are particularly "busy" passages, it helps to break up those passages with system breaks so that there are fewer measures full of short notes in each system. I let Musescore decide how to space notes within systems as it usually does it better than I can. I only adjust stretch (by reducing it) if I want to condense things a bit to squeeze an extra measure into a system. I have not found that Increasing stretch helps with spacing problems.
In reply to I find that if there are… by SteveBlower
I do that too; I just like to start form a larger stretch to begin with; it seems to be more efficient.
Only of they are contiguous.
Select the bars - apply stretch.
Having read the following from @azumbrunn:
I can change stretch only one bar at a time.
and:
I have the property panel almost always open. I can select measures and look at the property panel. It allows me to change some things but not stretch. Changing stretch is not possible in the property panel, only in the measure property dialogue.
While the "{" and "}" shortcuts are the easiest to use for stretch, there seems to be some confusion about the Properties panel in Mu4 as it relates to 'Measure width', along with 'Layout stretch' as found in the Measure properties dialog.
In Mu4, the Properties panel has a 'Measure width' setting which shows the same value as 'Layout stretch' from the Measure properties dialog. It also allows adjustment for a selection of multiple contiguous measures, unlike the one-by-one adjustment of 'Layout stretch' available in the Measure properties dialog.
So, selecting a range of contiguous measures, and changing the value of 'Measure width' in Mu4's Properties panel > Appearance will change the value of 'Layout stretch' of multiple measures and simultaneously update the Measure properties dialog of each of those measures.
In reply to Having read the following… by Jm6stringer
Windows 10, MuseScore 4.1.1
In reply to Having read the following… by Jm6stringer
Thanks for the info.
If this is so and measure width in properties is indeed the same setting as measure stretch in measure properties then a bug report should be submitted.
It doesn't make any sense for MuseScore to call the same setting with 2 different names.
Where in the handbook have you seen they are indeed the same setting ?
In reply to Thanks for the info. If this… by frfancha
I see it here https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/systems-and-horizontal-spacing#layo….
I agree, the nomenclature/description is confusing - it implies that there are two different settings but they are somehow linked and in some circumstances have the same effect - leaving open the possibility that in other circumstances they may have different effects.
In reply to I see it here https:/… by SteveBlower
Thanks Steve.
Note that the handbook is super clear on that point.
A simple copy/paste of that page might have been the best initial answer to the O.P. ;-)
In reply to Thanks Steve. Note that the… by frfancha
Perhaps, but the OP seems to struggle at some basic level with using the shortcuts "{" and "}".
@azumbrunn wrote:
This is a problem that comes up with any score for me. I don't see the value of an individual score here.
...and finally attached a score of 8 pages of music, containing 710 measures claiming:
Then I tried the shortcut. Selected a range of measures and applied either of them. No success. ???
...without detailing any steps taken, or at the very least what "range of measures" was selected.
In reply to Perhaps, but the OP seems to… by Jm6stringer
I think I will just use the measure width in the properties panel and forget about the shortcuts (they are nice but not essential).
Thanks everybody for your help!
In reply to First of all: This thread… by azumbrunn
You don't need to add breaks measure by measure. You do it system by system and it is a much more direct way to adjust spacing. If you select all measures on a system and then increase their stretch to push the final measure to the next system, that measure will take its increased stretch with it. Unless you then adust the stretch of the measures in the system it has moved to it will be more stretched than those other measures It is surely better to push measures to the following system by adding a system break and leaving the stretch alone. That is what system breaks are for after all.
In reply to You don't need to add breaks… by SteveBlower
You are right. I just want to expand a whole section or the whole score a bit and then go from there and "fine tune" everything including page turns.