measure duration does not change when adding measure marks

• Feb 2, 2024 - 00:24

I am working on a piece in 6/8 where I added notes longer than the 6/8 time to a measure, and went back using the "measures" pallet to split the measure. When I added the measure mark, musescore still thought the measure was to the end of the initial measure, even though it had been split.. The measure properties showed "6/8" as the nominal duration, and the actual duration as "12/8". Further, a "plus" sign showed up on both treble and bass clef lines at the end. This doesn't seem like the correct behavior - it should show that the two new measures are 6/8 with no timing errors. Am I missing something?


If you need another measure, add a measure rather than adding notes and then a bar line.

This is done in the ADD tab.

In reply to by sdwarwick

"The measure properties showed "6/8" as the nominal duration, and the actual duration as "12/8"."

This sounds as if you did one of the following (wrong) actions:
a) either you merged two 6/8 measures using Tools > Measures > Join selected measures
b) or you used the Insert note input mode to add notes for a missing 6/8 measure - which will increase the measure duration to 12/8

As pointed out earlier, the correct way is simply to insert an empty 6/8 measure:
1. Do not use Insert note entry mode, just remain in the default (Step time) note entry mode
2. Position your cursor in the measure after the correct notes
3. Press the Insert key (or choose Add > Measures > Insert before selection > 1 )
4 This will provide an empty 6/8 measure where you can add the missing notes
5. All measures remain correctly as actual duration 6/8

In reply to by DanielR

I did use the insert mode to add notes, which increased the number of beats. I figured that when I added the barline in the middle, the timing would be recalculated and the fact that the timing was correct would be reflected in the display. Having an ability to add barlines without the timing be recalculated seems fundamentally wrong. The "measure properties tab has nominal/actual information. We should have the ability to split measures to make actual=nominal when they are not the same. I don't see a way to do that, This is my concern.

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In reply to by sdwarwick

"I did use the insert mode to add notes"
And two people suggested in earlier posts that you should not use Insert note entry node but instead insert an empty measure which matches the duration of the time signature. Please consider that method.

"We should have the ability to split measures to make actual=nominal when they are not the same. I don't see a way to do that,"
Simple to do:
1. Select the mid-point of your over-length measure.
2. Menu path: Tools > Measures > Split measure before selected note/rest

In reply to by sdwarwick

If you have a 12/8 measure that really should be two 6/8 measures you should split the measure before the 6th eight note and that will create the necessary barline. See….

The barlines you add from the palette are just visual. They are useful for example if you want to indicate a 7/8 measure should be considered a 3/8 plus 4/8 by adding a dotted bar line before beat 4.

In reply to by SteveBlower

This looks like the right answer - thanks!, however it brings up the point that there is no visual cue showing a difference between a visual-only barline and a timing-impacting barline. It would seem that it would be helpful if visual-only barlines have the plus/minus indicators on them that only display when scoring, and should be able to be converted to timing-impacting as needed.

In reply to by sdwarwick

There Is a visual indication as you mentioned in your initial post. If the measure duration is longer than indicated by the time signature there is a grey "+" next to the ending barline. If the visual only barlines are used for their correct purpose there is no need for any indication. The whole point of the visual only barlines is that they do not change the duration of the measure. You would normally use them to divide a measure with the actual durations equal to the nominal duration. You have abused them to visually correct an incorrectly entered measure.

In reply to by SteveBlower

OK, I understand what you are saying. It would then seem this is purely a problem for me of how the program documents different functions. The "barline" functions can be purely visual, but timing-impacting information is considered in the concept of "measures" This makes sense. However the barline functions also impact the shape and function of "measure" marking lines, which creates the confusion. I think I understand now.

In reply to by sdwarwick

I think another problem is one of definition, and usage. We tend to use the terms "bar" and "measure" interchangeably. So it might seem like if you put a "bar" line in the middle of a "bar", you would get two "bars". Which is visually true. We think less in terms of "measure" lines. Would you think to put a measure line in a bar? Maybe only if you wanted all the drinks to be the same :)

In reply to by bobjp

bobjp - I think you are speaking exactly to the issue I have been struggling with.. Seems like the "barline" function works on both "bar lines" and "measure lines" and has some differences in function depending on which you are dealing with. I'd rather have a bit more tight method of transitioning between "visual only" and timing-impacting marks, but at least now with the help of our other friends that have responded, I can work around the differing conceptual models :-)

In reply to by SteveBlower

As an aside, I assume SteveBlower and bobjp are native English speakers, maybe sdwarwick too. I'd be interested to know how native speakers are familiar with the differences between UK and US English. I'm not a native speaker (German) and sometimes struggle a bit with the differences :-).
But at least I've already learned what SteveBlower wrote...

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

I would never use this expression!
It's just a made up word for tongue twister exercises anyway and would never be used in normal speech.
That's what makes of it:
"Danube steamboat captain's cap band" - actually understandable in this case.

In reply to by HildeK

Actually is is Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft, Guinness Book or Records. But indeed (most probably) artificial
However, Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz really exists

Longest English word: pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, as per the Oxford English Dictionary

In reply to by HildeK

And is the term "crotchet" also used for a hook, a sourpuss or a cranky person just by chance? :-)

> Hmm, I have the slight feeling we digress ;-)
Yes, we do. But it should be allowed occasionally.

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