File conversion

• Jul 18, 2024 - 22:05

Is there an app that will convert .pdf files to something MuseScore will read? Why isn't such a feature embedded in MuseScore?

Comments

• Jul 18, 2024 - 22:16

There is. (menu file > import pdf)
But it is not very good ... (because very old Audiveris)
If you want free , google search for Audiveris. Or pay lots of money for a commercial option.
Note (i guess nobody knows or cares) the tems of use: https://musescore.com/legal/terms :

7.7 By uploading any PDF notation files for conversion into MSCZ format files on, through or in connection with the Service, you hereby grant to MuseScore a non-exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, sublicensable, perpetual, and worldwide license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such converted files solely on, through or in connection with the Service, including, without limitation, through the Service to applications, widgets, websites or mobile, desktop, including, without limitation, distributing part or all of the Service and any converted files included therein, in any media formats and through any media channels, including without limitation, third party social media and streaming platforms. Except as expressly provided for herein, this limited license does not grant MuseScore the right to sell or otherwise distribute your converted files outside of the Service.*

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• Jul 18, 2024 - 23:56

AI hasn't reall come far enough to turn pictures into music with any degree of reliability. But you are definitely welcome to try the various programs out there that make the attempt, including the one used by the Import PDF service within MuseScore Studio/ With luck, you mgiht get results that don't take twice as long to edit and correct as simply entering the music directly. But I wouldn't count on it. Time spent learning to enter music directly is almost always more productive.

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• Jul 19, 2024 - 12:30

"AI hasn't really come far enough to turn pictures into music with any degree of reliability"

Marc, I admire all the support and education which you provide to the MuseScore community.

But I wish you would refrain from repeating that view, which is patently not a fact. I regularly use a commercial OMR tool (optical music recognition) which provides 95% accuracy or better. For a longer piece of music, that represents a huge saving in time over manual input.

And BTW that OMR software (SharpEye) is already so old that the UI looks like a DOS program!

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• Jul 19, 2024 - 13:44

I'd be happy to be wrong about this, but I guess I haven't seen any evidence of this yetl I mostly see the butcher jobs posted here from people wanting help fixing the problems, not so much success stories from people who found it useful.

So, here's a PDF of a piece I know well enough to be able to quickly gauge the accuracy of the conversion, and I know MuseScore and its users well enough to understand what's involved in finding and correcting any errors vs. the amount of time it takes to enter by hand. Would you mind posting the result of the SharpEye conversion?

Attachment Size
Reunion-40-scratch.pdf 69.47 KB

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• Jul 19, 2024 - 21:26

I downloaded the SharpEye2 30 day demo. (SharpEye version 2.68 - Jun 14 2006) !! Runs in wine. Nothing edited.
The result is impressive. Much better than Audiveris (at least for this pdf).
Biggest problem is the conversion to a compatible tiff file.
It seems that "PhotoScore uses the SharpEye SDK" , according wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_music_recognition

Attachment Size
Reunion-40-scratch.xml 104.07 KB

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• Jul 21, 2024 - 15:29

These do look better than some conversions I have seen, I will gladly acknowledge!

Still, I suspect most people who are not experts already in MuseScore will find it difficult to find and correct the errors, as the skillset required is rather more difficult to learn and master than the skills needed to enter the music normally. And that is often the issue - it's people who are not already experienced in using MuseScore who are most likely to ask about scanning PDF. And then they tend to get confounded by even the simplest edits, to say nothing of more complex ones involving correct voice assignments or tuplets. So it ends up being the people who are already pretty comfortable with the program who benefit most from the head start that the conversion software can provide.

But sometimes I go too far in how I word this, so I'll try to be more careful.

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• Jul 21, 2024 - 17:09

Still, I suspect most people who are not experts already in MuseScore will find it difficult to find and correct the errors, as the skillset required is rather more difficult to learn and master than the skills needed to enter the music normally.

Surely not for the score you submitted:
conversion_challenge.png

That is certainly not the lead sheet of a pop tune... ;-)

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• Jul 21, 2024 - 19:35

True, the piece was specifically created to demo lots of MuseScore features. But, that’s not really all that relevant. Multiple voices are virtually ubiquitous in piano music, and tuplets are extremely common in almost any music. And lots of perfectly common markings can end up confusing these programs and result in extra beats, etc. And it’s posts showing those sorts of things that have informed my thoughts on the matter over the past decade or so.

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• Jul 20, 2024 - 05:37

Yes, though not necessarily a problem because the OP wrote:
Is there an app that will convert .pdf files to something MuseScore will read?

There is no mention of a pdf file from a "scanned" score (e.g., what Marc terms a "picture").
True, a pdf file can be of a picture (scanned score); but another possibility is that a pdf file can be an export from a scorewriting software (like MuseScore).
A 'litmus test' to determine the difference can be seen here:
https://musescore.org/en/node/327643#comment-1109574

The properties of Marc's attached Reunion pdf shows:
Score pdf.png
So not really a "picture" (also verified when doing the mouse-drag 'litmus test'):
litmus test.png
Plus, Marc's pdf shows it was created in MuseScore Studio and therefore a good candidate for PDFtoMusicPro.
So, it's good to have different tools available in the toolbox.

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• Jul 21, 2024 - 15:20

This is true - if the PDF was generated from a notation program, then it has more info in it that some of these conversion programs might be able to make use of. On the other hand, if the PDF was generated by a notation program, why not just generate MUsicXML directly and get far better results? Obviously, one might have a PDF generated by a notation program but not have access to the original program or the original file. But I still suspect the vast majority of people wondering about converting from PDF really are just working from pictures.

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• Jul 20, 2024 - 04:55

Indeed. the quality of the PDF can make a big difference. I had my 10 year old copy of PhotoScore Lite read Marc's PDF. It read all the notes correctly except for two measures. Being the Lite version, it can't read articulations or text. I also have the full version of Audiveris. It couldn't read the beams in almost half the measures. I made some PDF's of some of my scores that Audiveris read just fine.
I suspect that most of the Millions of MuseScore users don't want to have to input music by hand. So they try the built in reader, which does not work very well. So they post on the forums looking for help. And all they get is something about it being faster to input buy hand rather than correct all the mistakes made by the built in reader. And round and round it goes. Just learn how to input by hand. Shortcuts are faster than a mouse. And round and round it goes. Many of the millions of users don't read music or know any theory. They just want to put a PDF into MuseScore to make an mp3, or some kind of parts.
Round and round and round it goes.

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• Jul 20, 2024 - 06:32

It would already be a huge improvement if the Audiveris engine behind the web service were updated. Probably, many people try the import PDF function, decide it is inadequate, and ditch MuseScore. This is just bad publicity. It would be even better to just remove the service altogether.

Additionally, when using this service, MuseScore has "a non-exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, sublicensable, perpetual, and worldwide license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such converted files". Including publishing this PDF.

Shouldn't users be informed that their PDF might be published on MuseScore?

@bobjp: Can Photoscore Lite export to musicxml?

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