Courtesy Clef Not Working For Me

• Jan 30, 2015 - 17:01

This brought up last year in issue #28996.

I am using Build:c169cc2.7z. Can't seam to get a Courtesy Clef in exact scenario as stated in the above issue number.

BTW: Courtesy Clef is checked under Page.


Are you sure you are following those steps *precisely*? You wouldn't get a courtesy clef if you had previously turned off courtesy clefs in your Style options, for instance, and courtesy clefs only appear if the clef change is at the beginning of the system and actually represents a change. While they should work in the presence of Hide Empty Staves, it would certianly be possible to confuse yourself about which staff you are actually seeing.

So if you're sure you are really seeing a problem here not explained by the above, then indeed, please post the score and precise steps to reproduce.

In reply to by rwmol

Ah, no need them, that extra information allows me to reproduce the bug - the key signature is the key (no pun intended).

The workaround is actually better than what you are trying to do - instead of adding the clef change to the first *note* of the measure, add it to to the measure itself, or to the existing clef. That is, drag to the measure, or click the current clef then double click the palette icon. The bug only happens when trying to add the clef change to the first note of the measure, which technically adds the clef as a mid-measure clef change (notice how the main clef remains in place). Since you don't want a mid-measure clef change, don't add it that way.

Still, MuseScore normally detects when you try to do this and converts to a regular clef change for you. This fails if there is a key signature at the start of the measure, though.

I've filed this as #46036: Clef on first note of system becomes header clef after save and reload

In reply to by rwmol

Looks like you attached a picture of your rather than the score itself. But it looks like you've probably turned off dissplay of clefs, so no surprise you don't get them. Hard to say more until you post the score itself and *precise* steps to reproduce whatever problems you are seeing.

In reply to by rwmol

When I load your score into a current build, I see the courtesy clef I expect at the end of bar 7. Do you not?

However, I also see a bunch of invisible key signatures, including one hiding behind the clef at the beginning of bar 7. If I try deleting the clef in the beginning of bar 7, the key signatures moves off the staff - into the left margin. I thought at first your score was corrupt, but I see now you deliberately forces the invisible key signature to the left.

Meanwhile, I can suggest the following:

If you don't want key signatures, rather than mark them invisible, tell MuseScore not to generate them in the first place, via Style / General / Page / Create key signature for all systems. It seems you have already done this for clefs.

FWIW, I think skipping clefs (and key signatures) is a bad idea, and discussed this with the editors of the Real Book, who agreed and have started using clefs and key signatures again in subsequent publications. But the current behavior with respect to clefs in MuseScore I would consider a bug - even if you ask it to not generate clefs for each system, it should still do so if it represents a clef *change*. That is why you are having trouble with the clef in bar 7. Adding a regular clef change didn't work because MuseScore is skipping clefs a little too aggressively. So you had to settle for a mid-measure clef change, which is the wrong size and position, so you had to move it into position.

The bug where clef changes at the start of systems don't show is one I remember having come up before, but I don't see an issue. So I filed one: #46091: No clef change appears at start of system with "Create clef for all systems" turned off .

I'm having second thoughts about whether the original bug discussed - #46036: Clef on first note of system becomes header clef after save and reload - is a real bug; I'm updating the issue with comments about this.

Meanwhile, my advice on how to get what I think you are trying to get here:

For charts that don't change clef, go ahead and turn off the clef & key signature style options.

For charts that *do* change clef or key, don't turn those options off. Instead leave them on, but hide the clefs and key signatures you don't want to see, and set "Additional trailing space" to be negavite in Inspector so they don't take space. That way, you still get the full regular clefs to appear where the changes are, and the key signature is displayed correctly for the clef if they ever change together.

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