Dynamics overlay lyrics
When inserting dynamics from the pallet into a score with lyrics, the dynamics go below the note, overlaying the lyrics. If dragging from the pallet, they also do not go where they are put, but jump to below the note.
Tested on Musescore 2.0 beta 2 and MuseScoreNightly-2015-03-10-1408-cd9e1be.
Paul.
Comments
Change their vertical offset to some negative value via Inspector or style setting
Just a note - when adding a dynamic, it is deliberate that our soars at the default position (below the staff), not just randomly. If you prefer a different default - and vocal scores indeed are the common exception - the text style setting you can get by right clicking is the way to go.
In reply to Just a note - when adding a by Marc Sabatella
It seems you both are missing the OP's point, and it's something I've wondered about too. It's a major difference in behavior between 1.3 and 2.0 where palette elements land by dragging.
In 1.3, if you _drag_ an element from a palette to a location, it generally lands where you put it. With 2.0 the drag location is typically ignored, and that behavior is not expected.
I can see some benefits, esp with volta lines and pedal lines snapping into place and aligning, but sometimes with dynamics and other elements I just want them to stay where _I_ drag them. Win some, lose some!
In reply to It seems you both are missing by schepers
I'd say, typos aside (!), that is specifically what I addressed. It's a *feature* that things now position themselves autoamtically. (Made up numbers alert): 80% of the time that's what you want, only less commonly should you want to place something at other than the musically correct standard location. In 1.3, you had to manually position things to get them into those musically correct standard locations. In 2.0, it happens automatically, and if you prefer different defaults, you can change the defualts in the text style. Win-win, I'd say!
In reply to I'd say, typos aside (!), by Marc Sabatella
Well, I thought it was a bug, but if it's a "feature" it's an undesirable one (IMO). And I don't think you can have actually tried it. When the dynamic snaps to it's "correct" position it is necessary to carefully select the correct element from two that are on top of one another so that it can be moved. That can be very difficult.
Frankly, I don't understand why it was changed from version 1.3. I can understand why you have to have a standard position that can be used if you double click an item in the pallet, but as a user, if you drag to a particular position, that's where you want it to go.
As for these "correct" positions who decides what's correct? Most of the published music that I sing is "incorrect" by those arbitrary rules. I accept that in many cases, elements have to be moved around so that they can be seen. For example, if you have a crescendo to forte, you will probably have to adjust the size and position of the hairpin so that it doesn't overlap the forte element. Another example is stave text where you have notes above the stave - it is often necessary to drop the note by an octave before entering the text so they won't overlap. What I can't accept is things that make it harder than necessary, which this snap effect does.
As for changing the default position in the text style, will new users know how to do that; I don't - everything I've tried has no effect. The best I could come up with was to change it's position in the inspector after it's in place and then drag it to the required position; but that requires selecting it (the hard bit), so I might as well just drag.
In reply to Well, I thought it was a bug, by paul.shipman.98
I've gone over most of the palette elements, and dynamics seems to be the one that I feel shouldn't "jump" into a default position when released, but instead honor the drag location.
However, the majority of the time the default position is a wonderful blessing, so win most but lose one or two.
In reply to Well, I thought it was a bug, by paul.shipman.98
I think most people prefer not to have to drag things at all - they want things to go to the right place automatically. Can you imagine if you had to position clefs, or key signatures, or time sigatures, or accidentals, or barlines, or staff line? Sure, *every once in a while* you might need to repositin something manually, and *every once in a while* that might require moving something else out of the way firs,t but that is very much the exception. Overall, an *enormous* amount of wasted effort is saved by the automatic placement - assuming the defaults make sense.
As for what's "correct", it depends on the particular score and the particualr editor, but there *are* standards for these sorts of things, and MuseScore tries to adhere to them, so only few exceptions require manual adjustments, and the majority of scores work well with very few manual adjustments.
It seems to me the problem isn't MuseScore placing things at a predefined position - it's the fact that for vocal music (only), the default position for dynamics is not appropriate. So that's why I said, simply change the style setting to place the dynamics above the staff. Now it will place everything correctly automatically.
Changing style is easy. For text elements, right click, choose Text Style, change the horizontal and/or verticla position however you like. Other non-text elements have defaults set in Style / General.
In reply to Well, I thought it was a bug, by paul.shipman.98
BTW, while I don't support reverting the automatic placement features in 2.0 (for dynamics or other elements), nor do I support penalizing users for using drag & drop rather than double click (many never discover the latter) by disabling it for ordinary drag & drop, I *would* support having some *option* to enforce the manual position of the drop. Like, by holidng Shift while dragging.
In reply to Well, I thought it was a bug, by paul.shipman.98
Also, when placing dynamics and most other elements by double click, it comes pre-selected, so it is simple to then reposition with the cursor keys or the Inspector. Assuming the default position is in the ballpark - which it should be - then one or two presses of ctrl+left, ctrl+up, etc should position it perfectly. And *better* than just arbotrarily going whereever you happen to release the mouse - by positioning with the keybaord in this way, you are guaranteed the few manually adjusted dynamics (or other markings) align in a reasonable way.
Dynamics, though, should not often collide with other elements unless we are talking about vocal scores, in which case, again, you should simply change the text style.
In reply to Also, when placing dynamics by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for everyone's comments. I've tried everything that was suggested and changing the text style does address the problem. However, I still think dynamics are a special case and shouldn't snap to the default position when dragged from the pallet. The problem is that when that happens, the dynamic element is no longer selected and is then very difficult to select because of the lyrics in the way.
It's probably too late to get it into the upcoming release, but could it be logged as an enhancement request for the next version (2.1?).
In reply to Thanks for everyone's by paul.shipman.98
I still say it's a better the way it is, for the reasons I've outlined. For *most* scores, the default position of dyanmics is great. It's only the minority of scores that happen to also use lyrics for which it is not. So for most people., drag & drop works perfectly as is. I don't want to see everyone else penalized if they happen to use drag & drop - the automatic positioning should work either way.
Instead, I think as I suggested, we could make Shift+drag work the way you suggest.
And again, meanwhile, see also my suggestion to simply not use drag & drop but instead use double click - that way the dynamics *are* selected immediately, so you can then immediately move them with the arrow keys. It's an easier method of entering ynamics anyhow, and it works better if you need to fine tune positioning.
In reply to I still say it's a better the by Marc Sabatella
Could it be a feature, that in an orchestral + vocal score, we select which voice (or automatically vocal staves) that have dynamics, and line dynamics, and staff text above the note?
In instrumental parts (either automatically or define in style for example) those would be automatically down (text can be discutable though) ?
It might be vey difficult or long I 'm not informatician....
I think as large of vocal parts are made like that, that isn't a negligeable exception...
but informatic can't reflect totally as human we do , so ......
In reply to Could it be a feature, that by Zynette
Yes, I think some way of making this happen would be very welcome.
In reply to I still say it's a better the by Marc Sabatella
Well this comment solved the problem for me. I was pulling my hair out trying to move dynamics by grabbing them with the mouse without realizing that I could move them with the arrow keys. I seemed to grab the lyrics 60% of the time or better. I can now live with it, even though I do not agree that the default is the ideal location for dynamics. I don't recall ever seeing printed music with them in such a location.
In reply to Well this comment solved the by Casa Erwin
The default placement of dymamics in MuseScore is the way virtually all *instrumental* music is printed. Vocal music is the only exception to the rule that dynamics are placed below the staff. That's why it would be nice to eventually have a way to proviee a staff-specific override.
But you shouldn't need to move the dynamics one by one. Just wait until you are done entering the dynamics, then right click one, Select / All Similar Elements in Same Staff, and use the Inspector to adjust the Vertical offset.
On reflection, I agree. Add SHIFT+Drag. Can an enhancement request be logged please?
Lamardelmy's automatic solution for vocal parts would be even better. More difficult to implement though, I guess. Perhaps SHIFT+Drag could be an interim solution.
In reply to Lamardelmy's automatic by paul.shipman.98
I like the automatic thing, and it seems it could be the list of possibilities for 2.1 or whatever the next release is. Even if we didn't just autoamtically detect a staff was vocal, it could be set that way in the template. So if you use a template, you should be good.
Meanwhile, Shift+drag is certainly easily doable. I still don't see why you'd rather do that than simply set the text style, though. Much simpler, much more effective, and the template can do that for you as well. Sure, Shift+drag for the rare cases where even the text style change doesn't do it, but it's something I wouldn't expect anyone to need to do more than once per page, say.
In reply to I like the automatic thing, by Marc Sabatella
Might be more difficult: think a closed SATB score, you'd probably want the dynamics above for S/A, but below for T/B
In reply to Might be more difficult: by Jojo-Schmitz
Right, some way to handle this would need to come along witht he ability to have lyrics both above & below staff.
For vocal scores, dynamics often need to be attached to the lyrics and NOT notes.
For example, verse 1 may be set as mp but verse 2 as ff
The whole area of lyrics -- placement ( above and/or below staves), copying (from/to clip board) , dynamics needs a considered design for a future release (in my view)
In reply to For vocal scores, dynamics by Ewart North
I don't see why having different dynamicvs for different verses - surel;y a pretty uncommon situation - would require attaching dynamics to lyrics rather than notes. After all, it's at least as common to need different dynamics for different repeats in instrument music. Simply attaching to the note and adjusting the position manually works just fine for the times this required, just as it does other times you might have a special need to attach two similar markings to the same note.
No argument on the other points, though.
In reply to For vocal scores, dynamics by Ewart North
Personally I like the default location for another reason as well as the ones given above: All the dynamics line up on the same--imaginery--line, giving the score not only an orderly look, but also facilitating reading the music. This is practically unachievable with drag and drop (except if Musescore "fixes" it for you the way it is now doing).
But I have to admit that I move many dynamic markings up or down. If on a line there are no notes with ledger lines below the staff the markings appear to be awfully far from the music; indeed, at least in the string quartet template they seem to be smack in the middle between two staffs. So I move them up a space, especially if the staff below has high notes in it, that might collide with the markings for the line above. Conversely if there are lots of low notes in a staff the markings may still be to high up and will need to be placed lower.
I always move the markings with the arrow keys such that the signs can stay aligned though they have moved a space up or down. And I try to keep the markings aligned for every line if possible (far from always in practice).
Finally a tip: If you need to select an item overlapping with another item (it sometimes just happens) this seems the easy way: Click on the items. If you caught the correct item move it with the arrow keys. If you got the incorrect item move it out of the way with command arrow and count the number of times you hit the arrow key. Then move the correct item and finally reposition the incorrect item exactly with the arrow keys. Still involved but not as nerve wracking as trying to move the cursor by a micron in hopes of finally getting the desired marking to light up.
Mainly for piano/vocal, I have created a custom dynamics palette that has markings below and markings above. Minor adjustment is still sometimes necessary but quite easy.