Barline Placement and Meaning
This is probably a very basic question, but I'm fairly new with the study of music notation. The book that I'm studying shows double barlines between measures 21 and 24, then again at measure 25. What would be the reason for this? I understand that the first two double barlines indicate a begin and end to a key signature change, but why would one be placed at the beginning of the measure going back into song key?I'm asking because I'm basically transcribing the music from the book into MuseScore for both practice with the software and to practice the parts. I've done various web searches to find possible answers, but I'm not finding anything particular to this and MuseScore, from what I can tell, will only allow me to place a double barline at the end of measure 25. Thank you for the help.
Comments
- Key Signature change during the piece
- Structural division of the piece (for example, in an orchestral score, put it where is indicated a letter to facilitate recognition of the points of attack
- Notice at the staff end for the Start Repeat on next line
see: http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory3.htm
(Take it the benefit of doubt)
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edit
I inserted a quarter rest;
From Inspector holding down Ctrl I dragged the barline until the rest (release when it changes color)
In reply to - Key Signature change during by Shoichi
Thank you for the response. I tried dragging the barline to the first note in measure 25, but it places the barline at the end of the measure. If I drag it to the second note, it places it after the first note. Is that a bug in the software or does it just not allow me to add the barline at the beginning of the measure for structural reasons?
In reply to Thank you for the response. I by SeanMcK
The programmers had to make a decision as to where to place the bar lines and after some thought came up the the seemingly arbitrary decision to place bar lines after measures but before notes. The program can't read you mind so you must know which one the program will chose and accommodate it since the reverse is impossible.
There are times in music where a bar line will come in the middle of a measure. I can think of 2 places. At the end of a section of music (that often starts with a pickup note) the last note will fall in the middle of the measure, sometimes with a fermata on in. The editor or composer may then place some sort of line, perhaps even a Final bar or even repeat bar lines after that note then use the remainder of the measure for the pickup to the next section. I see this mostly in vocal songs with verses but is not unheard of in classical compositions. The other time i notice it is when there are very long measures or measures with a large number of short notes, such as 32nds, and the composer or editor will put dotted lines in the measure to help make the aligning of the beats within a measure more obvious. This is usually more helpful for a conductor or an instrument with multiple staffs such a an organ.
In your picture, the double bar line at the end of measure 24 is actually the same double bar line as at the beginning of measure 25. Many music publishers follow this. I don't know if you can make MuseScore do this or not, but my setup does not do that at this time.
In reply to The programmers had to make a by mike320
Perfect. I thought that it might just be a continuation of the barline from the previous measure. Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I have quite a bit to learn.
In reply to Perfect. I thought that it by SeanMcK
I'm sorry, I don't speak English, I try to explain how to do it with MuseScore with the attached image.
Regards.
(eg. by web: Schubert, Sonata D960 2 mov. measures 42 and 43)
In reply to I'm sorry, I don't speak by Shoichi
Ok, you have to do a cosmetic work around. I was only considering automatic settings that would put the double barline at the start of the new line when it ends the previous line.
In reply to Ok, you have to do a cosmetic by mike320
Sounds like more work than is necessary for this particular application. But it's good to know it's possible.
In reply to Sounds like more work than is by SeanMcK
Almost anything is possible in MuseScore, it's just a matter of how much work it takes compared to how valuable it is to do the work necessary. When it comes to cosmetic fixes, I shy away from them because they are usually meaningless to most musicians. MS does a very good job in its primary function which is notation software.
I would not do any cosmetic fixes to a score until it was complete with all non cosmetic entries complete and I'm working in page view. Only then would I do any cosmetic fixes with the exception of a slight lengthening or shortening a dynamic change within a single measure. The reason for this is that when MS redraws the score because you added a courtesy sharp in measure 4, your entire score could be repaginated and now you find that your double bar line you spent all that time fixing is now at the end of the first measure of a new line and just needs to be removed (there are possible ways to fix this specific example, but that's a different discussion). Cosmetic changes that end up crossing to another system or another page is a very common source of problems in these forums. The most common probably being the dynamic change (such as a decrescendo) that someone dragged to 3 measures after it initially started and now is located in some random spot in the score and unclickable because MS got confused. There is a proper way to extend a dynamic change and it will actually be functional and display properly.
In reply to Almost anything is possible by mike320
Excellent advice. The community and tech support for this software is absolutely fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of this.
In reply to I'm sorry, I don't speak by Shoichi
Don't sell yourself short. Your English is better than most native speakers here in the US. Thank you for the help.
In reply to Don't sell yourself short. by SeanMcK
And surely better than my Italian ;-)
In reply to And surely better than my by Jojo-Schmitz
Thank you for your kindness (also thanks to the spiteful Google translator)
In reply to Thank you for the response. I by SeanMcK
If I understand correctly, you are wondering how to make the double barline at the beginning of bar 25. This is really just reiterating the double bar at the end of the measure 24. Most editors do not do this - they still show a single barline at the start of the next system even if a double bar ends one system. But some editors do decide to reiterate the double bar. I kind of like that approach myself even if it isn't very standard. You can do this manually by clciking the beginning barline in measure 25 then double clicking the double bar in the palette (or dragging the double barline from the palette to the barline in the score).
In reply to If I understand correctly, by Marc Sabatella
Good to know. It also looks fine if the measure moves on the page.