beams
I am new to MuseScore and don't quite know how the forum works, but I wonder if I could ask a question.
I am having trouble understanding beams.
I have a 3/4 piece in which I want to beam 1/8 notes in sets of three. I can beam the first three 1/8 notes in the measure, but when I try to beam the second set, the program doesn't cooperate. It either won't beam the second set of three 1/8 notes, or it wants to beam all six 1/8 notes in the measure.
I understand how to create a beam, but the handbook isn't clear how to end or break a beam.
Can anyone help?
Comments
What's wrong with http://musescore.org/en/handbook/beam? I think it does explain how to star, continue, end and break a beam.
In reply to What's wrong with by Jojo-Schmitz
I've read the section on beams several times and, if it's there, I sure don't see where it says anything about "star, continue, end and break a beam". That's why I asked for further assistance.
In reply to beams by B Nolan
Hmm, well, there are Icons for start beam, continue beam, don't beam and automatic beam
End mean isn't there, but a new start beam on the next note does that
You can attach keyboard shortcuts to any of these Actions
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/keyboard-shortcuts
In reply to beams by B Nolan
Here's the relevant passage from the aforementioned handbook page:
You can also first select a note, and then double-click the appropriate symbol in the beam palette.
* Start a beam at this note.
* Do not end a beam at this note.
* Do not beam this note.
(The actual page shows actual icons instead of asterisks of course).
BTW, I assume you have a reason for wanting this non-standard beaming? Normally if music is naturaly grouped in this way, it would be written in 6/8, not 3/4.
In reply to Here's the relevant passage by Marc Sabatella
You have a really good point about the time signature, Mark. I originally had it in 6/8, but a piano player tried one of my early drafts and, when I had to explain the Waltz rhythm, he said something about 3/4 time, so I changed it to 3/4.
I have finally fine tuned the piece, in which I have written scores for piano and choir. I got help from a friend who knows more about scoring than I do. And, she also suggested that the passage in question should probably be written in 6/8. (Part of the song is in 6/8, and part of it is in 4/4)
I want the beams to indicate the oom pa pa, oom pa pa rhythm of a few passages.
I'll change the time signature and then try again to get the beams to work.
Just to clarify. Here's what I was doing. I used the "control" key to highlight three consecutive notes and then clicked the "start beam at this note" icon. Of course, if I click the "do not end beam at this note" icon, it beams every consecutive eighth note in the passage. Clicking the "do not beam this note" icon removes the beam from the highlighted note. But I couldn't figure out how to beam consecutive eighth notes into groups of three.
It would be easier if MuseScore would add an icon for "end beam" or "break beam".
Thanks for your reply, Mark.
In reply to Thanks Mark by B Nolan
What you describe doing doesn't make sense. If you select three consecutive notes and then say "start of beam", you're saying you want *all three* notes to start a beam. The result will be there will be no beam at all between them. Start of beam literally means *start* a beam with the select note. You are supposed to select only the first note of a group and say you want it to start a group, just like the name of the command suggests. In other words, it *is* a break beam command - a "break the beam that otherwise would have led *into* this note" command.
So to get eighths beamed in threes in 3/4 time you would enter the first two which will automatically beam, enter the third will will default to not being beamed to the first two, then give the "middle of beam" command to override this default and connect it to the previous note. There's your first group. Now enter the fourth note which will default to being beamed to the first three, so give the "start of beam" command to break that beam. Now enter the fifth note which will default to not connecting to the fourth, so give the "middle of beam" command to connect it. Then enter the sixth note.
Normal beaming in 3/4 is in twos, so beaming in threes requires you to break one beam that nirmally would have existed (the one between the third and fourth notes) but add two more that normally would not have (between second and third and between fourth and fifth). See no matter how you slice it, there are three commands to give here: two joins and a break. There is no command ine could invent that would make that any easier: there are three things that need to be done, and the current system does it in exactly that many extra steps.
In reply to Thanks Mark by B Nolan
As there are usually several ways to go about performing a given task in MuseScore; and if you do not have any shortcut keys assigned to the Beam Properties, check out this attachment - which employs my 'enter all notes, then go back to make corrections' approach. ;-)
(Of course, this would be unnecessary in 6/8.)
Regards.
Deleted double post
In reply to deleted by Jojo-Schmitz
This comment comes in September of 2016, adding to what looks like an old thread. I am having beaming problems like the ones previously mentioned. In my case, I am inputting eighth notes in 7/8 time. Under the auto beaming scheme, the seven notes in a measure are grouped/beamed 3/2/2. I need to be able to also group them as 2/3/2 or 2/2/3, depending on the accenting scheme. For example, I would read the default beaming scheme as 1231212, (accents on the one). If I need one of the other two beaming schemes it requires breaking the first beam of three by making the third note a "DO NOT BEAM" note. Then, because it has a command to not allow itself to be beamed, I should be able to override that with a new command for it to be the beginnig of a new beam (and that ought to beam it onto the next pair, making a 3 note beam. It just does not happen.
I am having no luck inputting them in any other order than the automatic one, and I am having no luck editing the automatically generated 3/2/2 scheme. And, right now, the buttons in the beaming part of the pallet are unresponsive, no matter how many times I hit escape (on the off chance I am in some subroutine that does not allow access to beaming edits). This problem should be easy to reproduce as described, if anyone wants to have a go (try inputting or editing 7 eighth notes in 7/8 time so that you can beam any combination of threes and twos other than the standard/automatic 3/2/2 pattern. I would like to know whether it cannot be done, or it is just something I am doing wrong or not understanding. Thanks for any help I can get!
In reply to This comment comes in by jonnwetzel
Have you read the Handbook section on beaming? To break a beam and start a new one, double click the "Beam start" icon. To join a beam between two notes, use the "Beam middle" icon on the second of the two notes. The "No beam" icon should be used only when you literally want no beam.
So, hit "Beam start" on the note you want to start a beam, then "Beam middle" on any additional notes you want added to that beam.
In reply to Have you read the Handbook by Marc Sabatella
Thank you for the help. I understood the use of the "beam start" icon and the "beam middle" (beam continue-for-now icon)? I was using the no beam icon to break the first set of three down into two beamed and one flagged (which I thought was the first step). I think you are saying that, given a three beamed set and a two beamed set of eighth notes, I should be able to reverse them into a two then three simply by applying the "beam start" icon to the third note. It does seem that it ought to work either way, unless you are only allowed one shot at changing the beam characteristics of a note (that would be some kind of "freezing into place" the first edit and allowing no more). The way the scheme is set up makes perfect sense, but it just is not working in my case. The main problem seems to be that all the beaming icons (and all the other ones also) do not respond. Not to single clicks or double clicks, regardless of whether I am in or out of the note entry N icon mode, and regardless of whether I select the note THEN the icon (as I think it is meant to work) or vice versa (select icon, then note to apply it to). I seem to be unable to access quite a few icons, not just the beaming ones. I have been able to set up three different versions of the 7/8 time signature (one way to solve the immediate problem) but the three icons look exactly alike, and I have no way to say, in effect "this 7/8 icon is the 7/8 icon that has the three beamed notes in the middle" or, more concisely, " this is 7/8 icon #2". That problem may go away if the three 7/8 icons I now have stay in the same place in the time signature selection palette. So, for now, I hope someone has some ideas why my beam buttons (and many others) are not selectable. Probably something simple and stupid that I am doing......
In reply to This comment comes in by jonnwetzel
"… the buttons in the beaming part of the pallet are unresponsive…" Have you tried double-clicking them?
In reply to "… the buttons in the beaming by Isaac Weiss
I have tried single and double clicking the beam icons (and others). I have tried selecting the note then the icon, and selecting the icon and then the note. I have even tried selecting the BEAM or FLAG itself, rather than the note. I have tried all this in note entry mode and "outside of" note entry mode (N icon toggles this on and off). I might be stuck in some other mode that I have entered without knowing it, a mode that disables the beam icons (and lots of others). Selecting and entering notes and rests works as expected at all times. I feel I am missing something important but obscure about the software. Any ideas that anyone has about things that might disable icons like the beaming icons is greatly appreciated!
In reply to I have tried single and by jonnwetzel
It's hard to guess what might be going wrong, but what would help if you posted the specific score you are having problems with and precise step-by-step instructions to reproduce the problem. Then it will be much easier to see what you might be doing wrong.
The way it works is you select a note then double click the beam icon. During note entry, the note you just entered is already selected, so after entering a note, you can double click a beam icon right away. Again, "Beam start" to start a new beam with this note, thus breaking a beam that might have been going in, "Beam middle" to make the selected note connect to the previous note (assuming it wasn't set to "No beam").
In reply to It's hard to guess what might by Marc Sabatella
Thank you for clarifying that the beam properties SHOULD be clickable (double clicked) to apply to a note I just entered (in note entry mode), and should apply to a note I select first (when not in the mode). And I completely understand how the beam properties icons (buttons) are supposed to work. They just are not responding!
Has nothing to do with the score. Either I have inadvertently entered some mode of operation that does not allow the beam properties icons (and others) to work, or my software is corrupted. In either of those cases, you could edit my score easily (if I got it to you, which I don't know how to do yet) but that would not help me. Thanks for trying to help, but the problem still remains.
In reply to Thank you for clarifying that by jonnwetzel
Whether the proboem is with your score or the precise series of steps you are folliwing, we need to see the score and precise steps in order to understand. It is *extremely* unlikely there is some special problem on your system that makes these icons alone not work for you. It is *much* more likely a problem with your score or just soemthing you are not doing correctly, and that is why we need to see *exactly* what you are doing in order to help.
Try the following, though:
1) open a brand new score in 4/4 (or use the default "My First Score"
2) click measure 1
3) press "N" to enter note input mode
4) type "4 C C C" to enter three eighth notes, which should by default all be beamed
5) without leaving note input mode, double click the "beam start icon" - this should unbeam the third eighth - you'll told MuseScore to start a new beam here
6) type "C" to enter another eighth note (number 4) - it should be beamed to the third one
7) type "C" to enter yet another eighth (number 5) - this one should by default start a new beam
8) doubnle click "Beam middle" icon - this should connect that note to the beam connecting the previous two, leaving you with beaming of 2+3
If this works, then your system is normal, and the problem *is* with your specific score or something not right about how you are trying to do it.
In reply to Whether the proboem is with by Marc Sabatella
On my own, (before reading your more rigorous and well thought out suggestion) I did something much like your suggestion. With a new score, and knowing that clicking the note first and then DOUBLE clicking the beaming icons is the correct procedure, I finally started getting results. I think my symptoms were caused by two things:
1. Newbie habit of single clicking. But I often had this with double clicks as well.
2. Some icons do not respond as expected, and the result is no action. For example, if I have four eighth notes, the first flagged, and the remaining three beamed, I would click on the first note, then double click the "begin beam" button. That process results in nothing happening, although it should (in my opinion) beam all four notes together. Instead, to accomplish the result (all four beamed together) I have to select the second note, and then double click the "this is in the middle of the beam somewhere" icon. That gets the job done. But, the first button works as I expected (forcing a beam to start on the selected note) in some other seemingly similar cases. This is a bit confusing, but no matter if I can make it work some other way.
i am not totally sure that I have reliably "reproduced the problem" as they say in car repair. I remember not being able to find any icons/buttons that would respond to either single or double clicks, in or out of note entry mode. Whatever i did to get into that situation, I hope I do not do again. For now, things seem to be under control. I appreciate your kind suggestion, which would have pulled my fat out of the fire had I not already crawled out, and I appreciate all the other comments as well. Many thanks!
In reply to On my own, (before reading by jonnwetzel
Regarding #2, I am guessing you had for some reason - perhaps inadvertently while experimenting - set the second note to "Beam start". If that second note is set to "Beam start", or "No beam", then nothing you do to the first note will override that and force it to join to the first note. The setting on the second note is just as important as the setting on the first. "Beam start" on the first note followed by "Beam start" on the second will result in no beam, that is correct.
So, you can tell the first note to start a beam, but other notes will only join if you allow them to, by setting that right back to where they were in the first place: on "Auto". Or as you say, explicitly set it to "Beam middle", but it is best to leave everything at "Auto" except the things that *need* to change. Otherwise, you just make it harder if you wish to make a change later, because end up have to change more than you otherwise would.
In fact, at this point your score is probably sufficiently confused that you should probably select ll notes (Ctrl+A to select all, then press "Notes" button in Inspector o limit selection to just notes) and then double click "Auto" to undo whatever other inadvertent changes you made while experimenting, then start with a clean slate.
If you think you have encountered a specific situation where something is not working as expected, please post the particular score you are having problems with and precise steps to reproduce the problem, There is no way to verify what is really happening otherwise.
You can set up the time signature to have a default pattern. If, however, you are changing pattern frequently then I suggest setting shortcuts for "Beam Start" and "Beam Middle". You can then rapidly go through the score with the arrow keys and use those two to create just about any combination that you wish.
In reply to You can set up the time by underquark
I appreciate your suggestion, and have implemented it. I now have three versions of the 7/8 time signature icon in the time signature pallete, one for each of the three beaming patterns I would need. The first has 3+2+2 beaming, the second has 2+3+2, and the third 2+2+3. The only problem is that the three 7/8 icons look exactly alike, not really an issue as long as the software does not shift whichever one is "currently in use" to be the "first" of the three. If that sort of shuffling happens, I have to experiment every time I select a 7/8 icon, to see which one I have gotten. Probably with the undo command I can work around this fairly easily. It would be great to have some way to add unique identifying info to a time signature icon, so that you would see something like "7/8 #3". Something as simple as being able to assign colors to the newly created icons would work. My real problem is that like everybody, sometimes I will need to manually adjust the beaming scheme within a measure, and my beaming icons (and others) are not responding at all (see my above replies to other commenters for all the things I have tried to solve this). Any suggestions you have on what might be disabling my beaming icons would be greatly appreciated!
In reply to I appreciate your suggestion, by jonnwetzel
Further clarification of the above. What I have done, is created three versions of the 7/8 time signature in the Master Pallete (under the VIEW menu). They can be assigned names, which appear when you hover the mouse pointer over them. That fixes my problem of which is which. However, these DO NOT show up (as I hoped they might) under "Time signatures". And, when setting the time signature, you don't do it by going to a pallette, you do it by identifying the numerator and denominator in a drop down box. You should be able to specify the time signature by clicking on any of those time signature icons, including new ones you can create in the master pallette area. No luck yet identifying how to tell musescore which of my newly minted 7/8 time signatures to use (when beam properties is set to AUTO via the auto icon) and still no luck figuring out which incantations I need to say to make the beam properties buttons actually do anything (change color, get highlighted, change some beams) when clicked or double clicked.
I am going to try dragging my three new minted 7/8 time signature icons out of the master palette and onto the sidebar area labled "time signatures". Still don't know how to tell musescore which one I want to use for the current 7/8 score I am writing.
In reply to Further clarification of the by jonnwetzel
"...these DO NOT show up (as I hoped they might) under "Time signatures"."
You will be able to drag them there if and when you set up a custom workspace.
These are the parts of the handbook you need:
To create a custom workspace:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/workspace
and to create a custom palette:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/custom-palettes
In reply to "...these DO NOT show up (as by Xasman
I have since figured out another way to do this. When first starting a new score, I just fail to answer the time signature question. Then, when the score appears, I can invoke the master palette, and pick the 7/8 time signature I want to use (out of the three I created) and drag it (actually a copy of it?) into the time signature position on the score. I only did this once, but it worked, and the beaming auto beamed in the manner I wanted. As long as I can do that, I do not need my custom time signatures to be available in the "regular" time signature palette.
In reply to I have since figured out by jonnwetzel
I wanted to also state that I will be looking into the custom workspace thing. For right now, I am a ear trained musician trying to learn to read and write music at the same time (self taught), and trying to do so via typing music I already play by ear into lots of music editors, then listening to it. I have been looking for quick and dirty solutions to getting things done that are not available at all in many free versions of other editors, beaming controls being a prime example. I have not read all the stuff in the manuals that I should have yet, because I am quick-evaluating about eight software music editors. It turns out that how much you can do by the seat of your pants (without reading the whole manual) is a pretty good indicator of the usability/capability of the music editor (though probably not of its full range and power).
In my opinion, Musescore totally outclasses everything else I have encountered so far, and I feel that I need look no further. I look forward to working with and learning musescore!