Clef on transposed part vs. clef in concert-pitch score

• Jan 9, 2020 - 05:57

I am doing an orchestra score in MS3.3.4 with all parts shown at concert pitch. For the F horn staff in the score, I use alto clef consistently. On the part, the default is treble clef, which roughly fits with the transposition up a fifth. In MS 2.3.2 when I created a horn part from a concert-pitch score, it came up transposed and in treble clef, while in the score it still appeared at concert pitch and alto clef - as I would expect.

In 3.3.4 when I create the part, it initially comes up transposed but in alto clef - same clef as in the score. But when I change the part to treble clef, the score also changes to treble clef.

My workaround is to use a separate "scratch" copy of the score file for generating parts, so any such unintended changes don't affect the file that I use for the score proper. But if 2.3.2 got it right, why can't 3.3.x?


What you describe shouldn't be happening, we'd need to see the score in order to understand. For me, if I create a concert score with horn in alto clef, when I generate parts I get it transposed and treble, as I expect. Are you sure the score is in concert pitch mode?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Marc: Thanks for the quick turnaround. I'm attaching the score as it was before I started pulling parts. I tried again to create a horn part, and the clef issue recurred - you can try it yourself. I did check that the score is in concert-pitch mode (BTW, I don't think the button gives a clear enough indication of which state it's in, I had to check by clicking it). In case it's relevant, I should mention (as you can see from the title page) that this score was converted from MS2.3, and from a previous MS2 version before that. Hope this is helpful.

Attachment Size
DHF-ConcertOverture-Nov2016-MS3-test.mscz 152.46 KB

In reply to by dhfx

Looks like in the score you have set both the concert and transposed clefs to alto. Or maybe the version of MuseScore you started with didn't have a way to distinguish them. Anyhow, better to clear that up first before generating parts. So, in the score, turn concert pitch off (are you in dark mode? the button state is easier to see in normal mode, FWIW), change the clefs to treble, then go back to concert pitch. Now generate parts, and all is well.

It does seem there is an issue changing the clef after generating parts if the score and part are in different concert pitch states. So another fix would be to turn off concert pitch in the score temporarily, generate parts, and now in either the score or the part change the clef to treble. Then change back to concert pitch in the score.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

As I may have mentioned, I actually used a workaround - a separate "scratch" copy of the score file, just for generating parts (this also avoids adding to the size of the "master" score file). I left the "scratch" copy in concert-pitch mode and just changed the clef in the horn part; the clef in the score also changed, but I didn't care about that.

In the previous 2.3.2 version of this score, I WAS able to change the clef in the horn part without it affecting the clef in the score - i.e., different clefs even in concert-pitch mode. Go figure.

In reply to by dhfx

Actually, I just checked, and the exact same bug appears in 2.3.2. If the score and parts are in different modes at the moment you apply the clef change, it applies to both score and parts for whatever their current mode happens to be. That's wrong.

To be clear: a change to the part is supposed to affect the score and vice versa, but only for the specific mode you make the change in. So changing the clef while in transposed mode for part should also affect the clef that appears while in transposed mode for the score. If the score happens to be in concert pitch mdoe, you shouldn't see the change right away, you'd only see it when you change to transposed mode, but the change is made. At least, that's how it's supposed to work, but again, it messes up the same way in both 2.3.2 and 3.3.4, where the clef change in the part affects the current mode in the score instead of the corresponding mode.

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