Key change at repeated strain
I am copying a score from manuscript. Half way through the piece there is a key change and it happens right at the start of a repeated strain. When I put in the repeated bar for the entire score, then enter the key change, the key (6 flats) appears on the left side of the double bar/repeat start rather than on the right side. I looked around and could not find how to move the flats to the right side of the double bar. Any ideas? Thanks.
Comments
You can fiddle with the X-offset and leading space of those symbols. But if the key doesn't change again within the repeat then it is "technically correct" to show the key change before the repeat marking.
In reply to You can fiddle with the X… by jeetee
Thanks for the feedback. I am not entirely sure that putting the key change before the repeat marking is technically correct. I saw on another post where this placement of the key change was changed from Muse 2 to Muse 3. The thinking there seemed to be if you put the key change after the repeat marking, then when you played it the second time (repeated it), it would look like a key change again. I am not sure I follow that logic. When you go from line to line of a piece or to another page, you usually have the current key at the start of each line. That doesn't mean the key is changing on each line or page. And what if your key changed after the repeated section, and this following section itself was repeated. You would put the key change at the end of the first repeated section (the bar before going into the next repeated section) and when a person played the first repeated section the first time, they would probably think that the key changes the second time through! Also, what if in your music, it just happens that the repeated section is the very first measure at the top of a new page in the piece. Where will the key change show up? In the measure at the bottom of the preceding page? That would be awkward. Having the key in the bar where the key changes is a better method, in my humble opinion. I have seen it done this way in music. I don't recall seeing it the other way, but I have not looked extensively. An interesting issue, I think.
In reply to Thanks for the feedback. I… by John Alan Morgan
If the key changes only once, putting it within repeats signs is not correct, although some older editions used to do that, and indeed, MsueScore 2 had a bug where it went in the wrong place as well but this has been fixed. Only in the cases where the key changes a second time within the repeated sections and needs to be re-established at the start of the sections is putting it within the repeats considered proper. But even then, the correct place is not at the beginning but instead at the end - just before the end repeat.
MuseScore didn't invent the rules of notation, and they are not always logical, so it's not always relevant to go with logic over actual standard practice. But, FWIW, I'd say because people are accustomed to seeing key signatures at the start of every system, they don't process them as changes, just reminders. Changes are always indicated either mid-system, or at the end of a system - never at the beginning of systems. So any time you see a mid-system key signature, it normally always indicates a change of key. So in this case, it actually is perfectly logical as well as being correct according to music notation standards.
If you attach your score we can advise further on the best way to handle your specific situation, but in most cases, the default in MsueScore is correct according to standard rules of notation. In the cases where a second key change does occur, we can show you the correct place to notate it and how to achieve it.
In reply to If the key changes only once… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for the comments, Marc. I am copying from manuscript, an old Rafael Mendez piece. I have secured the rights to do so from Carl Fischer. I am a former member of The United States Army Band, and I plan to play this with a couple of local ensembles that I play with.
I attached the score (a work in progress). The key change at the repeated spot is letter H. For what it is worth, the manuscript I am transcribing from has the key change in the bar of the repeat back to sign. I see what happens in MuseScore if the repeated section is top of page. Look at the 2nd Clarinet part if your fonts and sizes are the same as mine. MuseScore puts the key change at the bottom of the page and again at the top. That actually handles it quite nicely.
May I ask where you found the standard rules of notation? Also, may I add that MuseScore is a fantastic piece of software and I really appreciate being able to use this great asset!!!
In reply to Thanks for the comments,… by John Alan Morgan
The book considered the definitive reference for modern engraving practice is "Behind Bars" by Elaine Gould, available from Amazon etc. It's what pretty much all professional editors refer to at this point, although of course there are also older works some still consult as well, and also "house style" followed by each individual publisher.
Indeed, as I said, older published editions often didn't follow the modern rules for this. But unless you're publishing music for 19th-century musicians, probably best to stick to 21st-century conventions. At letter H, as far as I can tell the key changes only once - from three flats at bar 114 to six the first time you play 115. Unless there is a second key change within the repeated section that you simply haven't added yet, it does not change a second time when you return to bar 115, so it would be misleading and confusing to musicians to ut the change after the repeat sign. An effort to avoid that sort of confusion is very likely why the rules have evolved over the past century or two - spurred in part, no doubt, but how much more common key changes are now in the post-Romantic era.
In reply to The book considered the… by Marc Sabatella
Okay, Marc, you have made a believer out of me. I appreciate all the info and insight.