Simplified just intonation for a newbie
I thought I might attempt at some simple scores, with just a melody line, in just intonation. I've looked at some of the plug-ins available for this purpose, but they are very complex and feature rich, I'd probably be in over my head. I think I'd rather do it another way. If someone could answer a few questions, I might be able to proceed.
--If i just enter a C major scale, can someone tell me how many cents sharp and flat each diatonic note ought to be, for just intonation?
--How about adjusting the chromatic pitches, in the same C major scale? (I don't really understand how just intonation might apply to a chromatic scale. I understand the answer might be complicated.)
--If a make the G a few cents sharper, for instance, is there an easy way to apply the same adjustment to all other G notes in the same score, or all G notes subsequently entered? (If not, I guess I can adjust each one individually, or copy and paste the adjusted note.)
--Once I get the C major scale right, then transpose it to a different key, will the just intonation still be correct?
Thanks in advance.
Comments
I found a plug-in called tuning.qmi. The interface looks pretty easy. However, as I can tell, it is compatible with MuseScore 3.x but not 4.x. The plugins manager recognized it, but MuseScore 4.1.1crashed when I tried to use it. Too bad.
In reply to I found a plug-in called… by Timborino
Those crashes might be easy to fix, by replacing Qt.quit() with just quit()
In reply to Those crashes might be easy… by Jojo-Schmitz
So, tuning.qmi for MuseScore 3.0 should work?
>by replacing Qt.quit() with just quit()
I might be able to figure out how to do that, but I need a hint. Where do I begin?
In reply to So, tuning.qmi for MuseScore… by Timborino
Open it in a text editor
Google is your friend, maybe. https://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio-webdav/handbook/Just_Tuning.html
In reply to Google is your friend, maybe… by bobjp
Thank you. That is a start, and maybe I could manage to do the math. If possible, I'd like to find a chart that would tell me how to adjust equal temperament intonation (which I think MuseScore uses) to make it just intonation.
I tried to google it once. Will try again. Meanwhile, any other suggestions?
I had a few other questions in my original post.
In reply to Thank you. That is a start,… by Timborino
I tried aksing ChatGPT. It said:
C# should be adjusted up 4 cents
D should go up 2 cents
D# should go up 16 cents
E should go down 14 cents
F should go up 2 cents
F# should go down 2 cents
G should go down 1 cent
G# should go down 14 cents
A should go down 16 cents
A# should go down 16 cents
B should go up 2 cents
That might be right, but ChatGPT is unreliable. Can anyone confirm that these are the correct values?
Is there an easy to way do this kind of thing without a plug-in?
Are there other plug-ins for this purpose as easy to use as tuning.qmi seemed to be?
Thanks in advance,
In reply to I tried aksing ChatGPT. It… by Timborino
Can't find the "edit" button. Didn't mean to shout!
In reply to Can't find the "edit" button… by Timborino
I would try one major chord and one minor chord, but not a melody line. I try to explain less as I'm not particularly educated, also "Google is your friend" is right. Read and learn, don't rely on AI, it takes away the fun even if he's right. These pages helped me understand, see the cents table.
Start with this one plugin for ms3 https://musescore.org/en/project/tunings-and-temperaments
It is already included with the ms4 program https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/plugins
Decide the specific system to use first, which includes
See and help improve this page https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/tuning-systems-microtonal-notation-…
> chromatic
Start by realizing that the note denoted by Eb in (C,Eb,G) is not a D#
> easy way to apply the same adjustment to all other G notes in the same score,
use that plugin
> G notes subsequently entered
not possible AFAIK
> correct values
decide what interval is needed, do subtractions, ms default is 12TET where 1 semitone = 100 cents, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_equal_temperament
In reply to I would try a major chord… by msfp
I'm doing the best I can here, so be patient.
>Start by realizing that the note denoted by Eb in (C,Eb,G) is not a D#
Okay, so apparently D#, as in GBD# ought to be 16 cents lower
How do I adjust the Eb, as in C,Eb,G?
Same question for Gb, Ab and Bb
>use that plugin
You mean tuning.qmi? Like I said before, I can install it, but it crashes MuseScore 4.1.1 when I try to use it.
In reply to I'm doing the best I can… by Timborino
> use that plugin
I meant
...
Start with this one plugin for ms3 https://musescore.org/en/project/tunings-and-temperaments
It is already included with the ms4 program https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/plugins
...
It's called Tuning in ms4, is disabled by default, just enable and use it.
> How do I adjust
Understanding the concept takes time. I think it's important to decide the specific system to use first by designating 1) a fundamental note, 2) its frequency, and 3) the method to find other notes. GBD# is an augmented chord, it is a bit advanced. How about a two note chord? Consider (G4,D5) chord
Calc 1.
Now 1) use G as the fundamental, and 2) use the G frequency calc from 12TET A440, which is the musescore default setting, when the G's Tuning property is 0. 3) use the "Pythagorean" method to find other notes, where there's a just ratio [ Perfect fifth ; 3:2 ; 701.96 ] see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning
To make a (G,D) chord that has the [ Perfect fifth ; 3:2 ; 701.96 ],
when Tuning property of the note G is 0, and the 12TET note D is 7 semitones away, ie 700 cents away,
then the adjustment of Tuning property of the note D needed should be 1.96.
Adjustments needed : G = 0, D = 1.96 .
Calc 2.
Now repeat but 1) use A as the fundamental, and 2) A440, which is the musescore default setting, when the A's Tuning property is 0. 3) "Pythagorean" .
First find out there're two [ Perfect fifth ; 3:2 ; 701.96 ] from G to the nearest A, namely G-D-A; alternatively use [ Major second ; 9:8 ; 203.91] directly for G-A, there's a 0.01 rounding error.
If Tuning property of the note G is 0, then Tuning property of the note A should be 1.96x2=3.92 or 3.91.
So Tuning property of the note G need to be -3.92, for the Tuning property of the note A to be 0.
Then, repeat calc1 to get Tuning property of D = -1.96
Adjustments needed : G = -3.92, D = -1.96
Both of them are "correct", note that the adjusted notes do not necessarily make sense with other notes such as D#.
Automate using the plugin
Calc 1 using plugin : Select notes, set "pythagorean", Root "G", Pure "G", Apply
Calc 2 using plugin : Select notes, set "pythagorean", Root "G", Pure "A", Apply
To work out Eb in (C,Eb,G) , "Pythagorean" uses [ Minor third ; 32:27 ; 294.13 ], "Five-limit just" uses [ 6:5 ; 316 ]
To work out any given note, decide what interval is needed first