Difficulties editing "Bagpipe Embellishment" and "Drone-Sound" with MS 2.02
Hello @ all,
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I did some test editing Bagpipe sound with MS 2.02 and default Soundfont FluidR3Mono_GM.sf3. I'm no specialist for "Scottish Highland Pipe", I even do not possess any bag pipe at all... But in my testscore on that "new sound features", there were some difficulties, that needed to be worked around. Might there still be some features inside MuseScore, that could need some debugging?
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For that purpose, I set up the attached "demo" with two sounding examples inside, to show the difficulties. First the "playable" version - by using some workaround, then it's faulty predecessor. Both attached in one file to this post. Would some development teamster please be so kind and take a look over it?
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The target for this score could be defined as "To create a score sounding like some real bagpiping at Stirling Bridge (celebrating a memorial for William Wallace)"
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Any listener's ears might recognize the "typical Highland Pipe" by the following sound events
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1. Typical "Reed" sound-samples are needed
2. Fade in of bourdon (drones) at beginning of score (The bag has to be inflated, before pipers can play This will be the only change of "Dynamics".)
3. Once sounding, the drones keep sounding on the whole piece through - without "retriggering"
4. Much Volume, Reverb & Chorus
5. No Dynamics changed the piece through (exc. #2 above. Impossible with instruments this type of sound-generation)
6. Much "gracenotes" in the chanter-voice, mainly for separating notes of identical pitch. (Bagpipe-"embellishments")
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What had to be done, to obtain "typical Bagpipe"-Sound?
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1. Typical "Reed" sound-samples are needed. Just easy, the default Soundfont FluidR3Mono_GM.sf3 offers the ethnic Instrument as #110 Bagpipe. = Scottish Highland-Pipe. Sound is devided into pitch range C(2) - A(3) for "Drones", pitch range Bb(3) - C(6) for "Chanter". Performs rather good.
NO DIFFICULTY.
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2. Fade in of bourdon (drones) at beginning of score (The bag has to be inflated, before pipers can play) See Example Measure 3, Bass Clef)
DIFFICULTY: No change of dynamics/volume, if sound was already trigged once before, volume will stay on that level... Neither, one 1/1 note nor tied 16/16th notes will perform this (only) volume-change. Reason: unknown; Workaround: Use of untied 1/16th to simulate "fade in" of Drone Pipes
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3. Once triggered, the drones keep sounding on the whole piece through - without "retriggering".
So, normally all notes for that bourdon-sound should be "tied" (Markup complete staff, and add [+] to set ties)
DIFFICULTY: Score begins replaying in the right way, but somewhere and some measures later, the sound will "cut off", be interrupted - and vanish. Reason unknown. Workaround: deleting the previous "tie" (only that) will retrigger sound.
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4. Much Volume, Reverb & Chorus. To obtain that, I use adjusting Mixer-/Synth-Effect controls first, second some old "mixing trick": Double the Track and do a Backmix as it's own reverb, at less volume and a little phase shifted, (by one 1/64 rest at beginning)
NO DIFFICULTIY. (If you want to see "Reverb tracks" in that example: They are noted in "hidden staves".)
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5. No Dynamics changed the piece through (exc. #2 above. Impossible with instruments this type of sound-generation)
Just had to set "fortissimo" at start of score, and leave it that way.
NO DIFFICULTY.
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6. Much "gracenotes" in the chanter-voice, mainly for separating notes of identical pitch. (Bagpipe-"embellishments")
Just open up Palette with 234 Bagpipe-Embellishments and try to find the "right one"...
DIFFICULTIES:
a) Palette with bagpipe-embellishments at current state has not much use... This very big palette with a number of 234 "figures" is rather confusing for input, indeed...
b) Current embellishment-set is developed for setting notes at the scale / pitch-range of the "Highland-Pipe" from a' to a'' - but that's only one member of Bagpipe-Family. Others, like french "Biniou", might be similar, others, e.g. "Scottish Border Pipe" will use another bore and scale (g' to g''). It would need another set...
c) Embellishments don't perform the right duration/timing at replay-time - they are "jolting". Notated as "1/32nd"-notes, they are remarkingly "slow" - too long + slow for the target-effect. (Maybe, this could be the same with any "1/32ns-gracenote-figure?)
Workaround: Edited "acciaccatura" (Grace Note) instead "embellishments-figures", it's much easyer to edit between 1 to 6 single notes than finding the right embellishment in that huge palette. Grace Notes, although notated as "1/8th"-notes, are remarkingly "fast & short" - fast enough for that soundeffect. Does not read correct, but replays right.
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Would you let me know, what you found out? Thanks in advance.
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Sincerely
FarrierPete
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Scotland the Brave (errors).mscz | 27.03 KB |
Comments
Hi FarrierPete,
yes, some people actually are listening, but perhaps not responding as quickly as expected. I am the developer of the bagpipe-embellishments palette, which I provided simply as a service to the community (I am not a bagpipe player myself). If you could provide specific instructions on how the palette could be improved, I'd be willing to try to help. Please note that I am an unpaid volunteer working in my spare time with a (different) full-time job, I do not have unlimited time available to work on MuseScore.
Regards, Leon.
In reply to Hi FarrierPete, yes, some by Leon Vinken
Hi, Leon,
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Nice to meet you, and thanks for your answer.
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Indeed, I even do not own any bagpipe myself. But, as guitar-picker in celtic folk (or renaissance german folk) - you are forced to listen to the bagpipe... If you e.g. want to sing scottish/irish folk, or use any tin-whistle, or do some flatpickin' with DADGAD-tuning, you should know 'bout embellishments. The very same thing, on bagpipe, with tin-whistle or your own voice...
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Some special knowledge about "bagpiping" should appear, if you search the "net", for sure.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagpipes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bagpipes ' Rather good overview of Types
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackpfeife_(Musikinstrument)
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Search for scales and tunings there.
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How to play and "Embellishments"? I recommended, e.g.
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> https://armycadets.com/become-a-cadet/what-youll-do/piping-and-drumming/...
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to some other users interested in bagpiping ( named cehuisken, MacLennan, mcpitten, Magnus_Ceasar), joined their discussion-threads, wrote 'bout my test-edits, the problems that showed up, and the workarounds that I've found so far. And, for sure, no poor little "free user" will get paid for his "helping hand", too!
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As I updated from MS 1.3 to ver. 2.x, I saw that topic "Dudelsackverzierungen" (= Embellishments) on the localized Palette, and found a new file format supported in the list: "Bagpipe-Music-Writer-Data (experimental)". As online-handbook does not really help on that, I began searching the net for "how to..."
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Open Source Software... OK. Accepted. I understand and I support it's ideas.
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You want some support from User? Here I am! Here I sit and spend my time - for the free project. That's the very reason why I take up the thread and take part in the discussion!
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But look, if I do nightly test-edits, create and file example data, post that to the forum - and then no response? No sign, even no "thank you for your notice, we see the problem and will be working on that in the future - might take some time..." - that's a little frustrating for any unpayed software-tester. (As you have no time to waste, I've no time to waste, too!)
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Beg your pardon, if I was sounding a little impatient... I see, only five users with interest in bagpipe isn't really a sign for "importance". (Seems, some more time will pass by, before somebody will work on that, just because "less important".)
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Please, Leon: load the Scotland-The-Brave-(errors).mscz-file to MuseScore, do a testrun and replay it. First version of the tune (with Workarounds) should play quite normal. Second won't, I presume. See red notices in that file there. (User cehuisken met the same problem with that "jolting embellishment)
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The big embellishment palette is, IMHO, not handy, sorry to say. You need too much time to find the "right" one. Further, the embellishments there are those specific to a "Highland Pipe" They will play in A-mixolydian scale) If you use another type of bagpipe, you'd need to replace the whole palette with another one, or repitch their notes one by one. (For "Scottish Border Pipe", e.g. in the scale G-mixolydian - due to another mensuration).
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See my "workaround". It was much easier for me, to use the "normal" grace-note-palette, add between 1 or 6 "acciaccatura" to a note, reset their pitches and thus write any embelishment myself - instead searching the palette... Further, you might copy a already written note or group of notes with embellishment from your staff and paste it, wherever you want.
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Another problem, not mentioned up to now: Tuning of the "drones". The "normal" Bagpipes sound the same tone in octaves, e.g. A - a - a' (or A(3) - A(4) - A(5) in MIDI), and the Soundfont does support exact that! Trigger one A and hear 3 drones sounding. The "Borderpipe" would make no Problem, just set G instead of A, thats all. But indeed, there is a bagpipe that's not playing in octave - the german "Schäferpfeife" will use a "Quinte" instead. It's tuned Bb - f (or Bb(3) - F(4) in MIDI). No idea, how to obtain that...
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> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schäferpfeife
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I'll add two more pipetunes, set with "workarounds" ("Battle of the somme" and "Highland-Laddie"), just to bring you some more sounding examples. You'll find some workarounds, and some hidden "reverb"-staves in both of them.
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Thanks for your answer, and, thanks for taking time to read my reply.
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I promise: I'll be a nice boy and will patiently wait for Santa Claus on 24.12.2015...
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B^))
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My further thank goes to Werner Schweer and the Musescore development team for Ver. 2.0.2 and the new soundfile (.sf3): The new Musescore 2.02 is big - and so is the new sound-routine for playing online at musescore.org.
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Have fun, and Set the Music free!
FarrierPete
In reply to Hi FarrierPete, yes, some by Leon Vinken
Hi again, Leon,
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as I did some more Test-Editing on that "Bagpipe-Problems", I'll add another Demo-Score that you can use to demonstrate the Problems I found. It's the well known scottish tune "Auld Lang Syne" on the Bagpipes.
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OK, You did that "Embellishments"-Palette with 234 different Patterns on it (for use in A-mixolydian". As the Demo "Scotland the Brave.MSCZ" shows - The notes play - but with the wrong timing.
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What Difference - if any - is made between "Bagpipe-Embellishment" and "appoggiatura (german "Lange Vorschlagsnote)"? Is there any difference, e.g. in "emphasis"?
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As far as I see - basicly, any embellishment could be seen as "preset group between one and six 1/32nd-appoggiaturae for an A-mixolydian scale". Could it be, the timing-problem might be the same with "Embellishment" and "Appoggiatura"?
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- appoggiatura (german "Lange Vorschlagsnote) shows different durations - from 1/4th, 1/8th-, 1/16- or /32nd-Notes
- "Embellishment" shows 1/32nd-"Gracenotes", only - but they sound at wrong duration/timing. Far too long,
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See: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornament_(music)#Appoggiatura
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Acciaccaturae show those 1/8th-notes, only - but sound-duration is much shorter, might be 1/32nd-duration. Thus, my "workaraound" gains a better timing in replay. What is the exact reason for this behaviour: A 1/8th-gracenote of shorter duration, as a 1/32nd-gracenote?
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See: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornament_(music)#Acciaccatura
-- So far to the "embellishment"-Problem.
My "Auld Lang Syne"-Demo shows two other faults in replay (might be, it's not "your job"?)
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- it does not obey and follow the "crescenso" in Drone-Notes, Measure 1 + 2
- it cuts the sounding drones at replay. If you try to "retrigger" the drone by deleting a tie before, the cutpoint shifts to left.
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So far to now. Feel free to contact me, if I could help to solve that problems...
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Sincerely
FarrierPete
Also, keep in mind that
a) The main purpose of MuseScore is notation, not playback, and mich of what you mention is outside the scope of what MuseScore does. See the Handboom under Soundfont more info on loading alternate soundfonts
b) This is open source, user supported software, and there are not many other users woth expertise in bagpipes.
In reply to Also, keep in mind that a) by Marc Sabatella
Hi, Mark,
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Thanks for your answer, and bringing Leon in.
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Beg your pardon, if I was sounding a little impatient... I see, only five users with interest in bagpipe isn't really a sign for "importance". (Seems, some more time will pass by, before somebody will work on that, just because "less important".)
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You wrote "The main purpose of MuseScore is notation, not playback, and much of what you mention is outside the scope of what MuseScore does." - not only to me, to some others, too.
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IMHO, that argument won't get better by repeating it on and on... B^/
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I agree: MuseScore wasn't meant als Sound-Mixer. But it has built in some REAL sound-mixing features. It already provides "Reverb" and "Chorus"-buttons (see https://musescore.org/en/handbook/change-and-adjust-sounds-0#mixer) and synthesizer-effect-management (see https://musescore.org/en/handbook/synthesizer#effects and http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-rev1-doc/quickguide.h…) - so, IMHO there really should not be any big obstacle to use them, for better sounding results in real life... Or are you going to tell me, that's all "out of scope, illegal and forbidden"?
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I am not asking for "space invaders" or "Donkey Kong", I ask for "realizing sound" and "mixing sound" (small solution). And I see that there real exists some "Special Software" for enhanced soundmixing, e.G. "MusE". (I would like to test that some time - but, what a pity - not for WinDoozes.., for Linux only B^{ .) But, before considering about other Software like "Audacity" (it's already installed here since 3 years!) - let's stay with MuseScore's own small facilities.
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Just tell me, Mark - inside MuseScore and within the scope what it does - WHAT ARE ...
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- the new FluidMono_GM.sf3 soundfont with 156 sounds (I state: I like it!)
- the sound mixer [F10]
- the View/Synthesizer-Window with it's effect-control-tab
- the Bagpipe-Music-Writer-Data-Format (experimental)
- the new "Export to .MP3"
- the "Bagpipe-Embellishments" on lefthand-palette
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... MEANT FOR? Are they for real use? Are they "experimental (use at own risk!)"? Are they "pure decoration"? Or, are they "for specialized personal only" and "prohibited for any small, free user"?
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If they are prohibited or not - the development-team should tell that in the handbook, please!
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As long as I am not told "forbidden", I think them to be "real usable", try to use them and intend to continue that, see e.g. > https://musescore.com/user/28092/scores/1221071 . And, for sure, I still think that "nice printouts", and "nice .PDFs" (that target ist nearly gained) should NOT be an obstacle for "nice sound with the right timing at replay" or "nice sounding .mp3" All of that could possibly be "inside the scope, what MuseScore does".
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As one small example, what could be done by mixing sounds (no bagpipe sounding)
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> https://musescore.org/en/node/83701
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. or load the attached file to musescore, and listen to that sound at replay, first. Believe or not - its the default FluidMono_GM.sf3, nothing else! Look over that file - clean and readable. Then open instruments-menu, and make those invisible staves visible - and you'll see the old "backmix of sample"-trick, to get more reverb, chorus and harmonics.
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For sure: Any special "reverb-staff" wears no "printable" information. (For that reason, I hide them). But they wear "sound information", that is audible. Switch reverb-staves-sound off in mixer, set all reverb + chorus to zero, replay again, and you'll hear the difference between default- and mixed-sound.
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Thanks for your answer, and, thanks for taking time to read my reply.
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I promise: I'll be a nice boy and will patiently wait for Santa Claus on 24.12.2015...
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B^))
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My further thank goes to Werner Schweer and the Musescore development team for Ver. 2.0.2 and the new soundfile (.sf3): The new Musescore 2.02 is big - and so is the new sound-routine for playing online at musescore.org.
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Have fun, and Set the Music free!
FarrierPete
In reply to Hi, Mark, . Thanks for your by FarrierPete
FWIW, it's also usually easier to carry on discussions where each separate topic is a separate thread, rather than one long post discussing many unrelated topics. That also affects how willing people are to get invilved with a discussion. Like, someone might know absolutely nothing about bagpipes, but have insight into reverb & chorus, and might not read a long post about bagpipes to discover there is a question about reverb and chorus in there. But a separate thread with a title that reflects that subject and a correspondingly shorter post just dealing with topic would probably get much more response.
Anyhow, to try to adress a few specific questions:
The FluidR3 soundfont is not developed by the MuseScore team. It is a freely available, freely licensed soundfont we package along with MuseScore as a convenience to users. Occasionally when enough people complain about some particular sound within this soundfont we look at replacing it with a sound from some other soundfont if a freely-licensed alternative is available and there is strong consensus that it really is better. But we are not ourselves in the soundfont creation business.
Anyhow, the playback features you mention are not experimental; they are real. But they are meant to get a general idea of how a score sounds - it is not the intent that they provide all the controls that a DAW software might provide to fully tweak the audio. That is, again, just not what our focus is. There are too many things still remaining to be done with notation and too manh people depending on us to do that work, and we can't do everything, so we have to prioritize.
In reply to FWIW, it's also usually by Marc Sabatella
Hi, Mark,
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the reason for one long post discussing many topics? All topics appeared round about "Bagpiping", that's all. I wanted Bagpipe "better than default sound", so I started Backmix/Reverb-Track. I wanted real sounding embellishments - and found that their timing at replay wasn't OK. Then I found a "drone-sound" with Notes that cut off - in spite beeing tied. From my point of view, it all could was connectedt by the term "Bagpipe", all could be related, and keeping all together, provides overview. But, if you prefer, I'll make such a discussion between three to ten different Blogs/threads. (Next time).
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I never did demand for "all the controls that a DAW software might provide to fully tweak the audio" -- I wrote "Soundmixing (Small solution). The biggest conductor's score on my 4GB-Ram-PC up to now had 27 Instrument-staves over 36 pages - and that nearly shreddered my harddrive, as it crashed down the PC for perhaps 17-18 times. Edit two or three notes, and face the next 40-sec-timeout - really? I wouldn't be foolish enough and demand that anyone should be able to mix a ready-to-burn-Demo-CD or complete Sound Track for "Jurassic Park 15" using only MuseScore on any plain PC. That will need special Hard- and Software. Accepted. But: The Music for some 10 minutes-Home-Videos, the "sounding training scores" for a shanty-choire, some chamber music for Quartett or Sextett - that won't be too much work for MS. On paper, as .WAV or as .MP3. Not experimental, but real.
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Thanks again for your effort and engagement.
Sincerely
Farrierpete
Hi Leon and all
Iam interested in your work on bagpipe sounds for Musescore. I am a piper playing the Scottish Highland bagpipes and Smallpipes
I have downloaded tried your "Auld Lang Sang" tune. It plays the melody fairly well but drone sound sounds waving and out of tune. I read in the posts you are wanting to add reverb and chorous etc for more harmonics. ????? Good bagpipe players don't have any wavering or reverb when you are listening. It must be a constant drone tone. When I open the tune in Musescore 2.0.2 latest the tune opens in key of D major and plays inconcert pitch of D major. When I look at the details in mixer it say "Klavier" and using Bagpipe instrument and play transposing it says Unison.
If I open a new score and add Bagpipe instrument it says it is Play transposing 2 Major Second down.
To me this transposing is wrong for Highland bagpipe. It should be Play transposing up 1 Minor second. So written music for bagpipe in A major plays as Bb Major and Bagpipe music written in D Major plays as Eb major.
When I transpose your "Auld Lang Sang" to Eb it sounds much better and drones sounds are steady but reduced in volume ????
Where does the "Klavier" come from are you using a different sound or instrument file ???
I am just using the one in Musescore 2.0.2
Also but not part of the bagpipe problem....the flat symbol as in Eb or Bb in not displaying correctly on my screen when I display the list of transpositions or hover over the Key signature palet to display the names of the keys signatures
Thanks for your help..............
In reply to Hi Leon and all Iam by muselt
Hi, muselt,
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nice, you joined this discussion tread, too. It's good to have someone in the boat with real experience in bagpiping.
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You wonder 'bout the term "Klavier"? It's german for "Piano", both words derived from ital. "clavicembalo piano e forte" (invented by Cristofori). As I'm german, the localized menus in my MS-installation use german vocabulary. You see, some traditional german habits (e.g. we continue to call that tone "H" instead of "B" and "B" instead of "Bb", "dur" instead of "major", "moll" instead if "minor", to drive our cars on the right instead of the left side of the road... and so on and so on... Might be, we could change that in future... )
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Yeah, in that scores you see my intend to create some score that works around that Bagpipe-Problems with Musescore/FluidSynth and with some General MIDI compatible Sound Device.
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As I annotated already, the "classical" bagpipe score was meant "confidental and for insiders", just for bagpipers. It doesn't use "sharp" or "flat" (as there are only nine tones on the chant), it doesn't mention the tone that comes from the "drones". It just shows the default-key of "C-major", and the notes/embellishments to be played on the "Chant", only.
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OK, might be that's enough information for a human piper - who (after some glasses of malt whisky) is of course aware, that there WILL be real sounding drones, every time he will blow air into the bag of his pipes.
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Alas - MuseScore and FluidSynth aren't human Pipers (they don't like malt whisky), and a Soundblaster-Card or any other GM-compatible sound-device IS NO Bagpipe. If you want them to sound like a bagpipe, you'll have to tell them (in any case!):
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> what waveform (out of the font)
> what pitch (in chromatic General MIDI-Scale)
> what volume/reverb setting
> when to start (Signal = 1 > attack > decay > sustain)
> when to stop (Signal = 0 > release)
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A "classical" bagpipe-score won't do this job - because it is not able to. So, if you choose e.g. "bagpipe" from menu, the C# and F# will appear automatically behind the clef (as Musescore "knows" about the A-Mixolydian Scale, forced by the Highland Bagpipe-Mensuration.)
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My choice (my "translation" for recreating the sound) was:
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> Begin with a plain "Piano"-Score (Treble/Bass-Clef) (It's a NON TRANSPOSING INSTRUMENT)
> Add a seperate Percussion-Staff where needed.
> Relabel the whole score as "Bagpipe"
> Choose a key of D-major (what will reproduce A-Mixolydian scale, if you start with tone A)
> Put the drone-sound into the "lefthand-staff" (=bass-clef)
> Put the chant-sound (Notes + Embellishments) into the "righthand-staff" (=treble-clef)
> Choose the Bagpipe-Sound from Pulldown-Menu in the Soundmixer ([F10]
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I see the following advantages by doing so
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> This score allows you to edit Chant-Notes/Embellishment as 1:1-copy from the "real" Highland-Bagpipe-Score, just write down in treble-staff, what you read on the paper.
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> This "split"-tactic will provide the possibillity for seperate dynamics / volume control between chant and drones. You might use "fortissimo" for the chant, "mezzo forte" for the drones...
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But to respond on your writings, muselt:
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- "It plays the melody fairly well.."
Thanks, that shows that I might be on the right way...
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- ... but drone sound sounds waving ...
Yeah, there indeed is some chorus waving (and that is to be called QUITE NATURAL, see below)
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- ... and out of tune. "
Might be, as I did non tune it... But, IMHO, as a man that tunes six guitars of his own and plays since over 46years (still able to hear 1cent in pitch), I didn't recognize detuned drones.
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- "I read in the posts you are wanting to add reverb and chorous etc for more harmonics."
Yes. Indeed I do.
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- "Good bagpipe players don't have any wavering or reverb when you are listening."
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Ahhuuummm, Ehhhh... ???
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Sorry, I disagree, muselt. Please, do me the favour and listen again to the sound of the real pipes (with good headphones, please). For some example, see
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekP7XaI78SM
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGRTqgObnMA
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgViIloGEzU
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There are REAL GOOD BAGPIPE PLAYERS playing... Field Marshall Montgomery Pipers, World Champions 2012, 2013, 2014 playing OPEN AIR. And, IMHO, there really is VERY MUCH WAVERING and CHORUS, just in the air over the marching band...
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Dear Muselt, Reverb and Chorus seldom use electronic mixing, as they are quite natural acoustic/physical effects. Sorry to say, they just appear, if you like them or not. Room-acoustic, even open air, is responsible for that. If you don't want them, you'll have to take your bagpipe into an anechoic (= acoustically dead!) room, to get a "dry" sound sample. (As to be found in the default soundfont. Therefore, I want a sound with more "Chorus" and "Reverb", as it sounds more "natural" to my ears.)
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Thanks again for the contribution you posted, as it makes me define better, what I intend.
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Sincerely
FarrierPete
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In reply to Hi, muselt, . nice, you by FarrierPete
Hi FarrierPete
Yes, The Field Marshall Montgomery are the best pipe band, I have heard them many times both outdoor and indoor. and yes when you listen to a band playing in an open natural environment you will get reverb echos or whatever and you are listening to pipes and drums and other ambient noises.
When musescore plays piano, or trumpet or other musical instruments etc it is more like a solo playing instrument in a more controlled environment. This what I thought could be achieved with the bagpipe sound and add reverb or chorous etc as required.
Listen to this clip..............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuvMePr82y8
It is of Stuart Liddell playing solo on stage in a more controlled environment
To me if this type of sound could be achieved with musescore it would be better for writing bagpipe music and combining it with a few other instruments such as piano, brass and other woodwind instruments
http://bakedbean.co.nz/EPDownload.htm
Above link is to another bagpipe writer software company that can play bagpipe sounds
I don't know if I have put the links in correctly or not...???
In reply to Hi FarrierPete Yes, The Field by muselt
It seem hard to keep track of what is happening on this thread.....User requirements seem to be haphazard and trying to cover all types of bagpipes at once. I am interested as a piper who is also interested in the technical aspects and programming of music software to play and harmonise with other instrument etc. It might be better to deal with one part of the problem at a time...namely bagpipe embellishments.....get them to play quicker and more clearly rather than slurred long gracenotes as they seem to be at present. If they would play short like the first gracenote in the gracenote palette that would be better......... I have looked at the musicscore xml files, workspace files and palette files and tried editing them but just seem to be shuffling the existing options around, I cannot see where to change the duration of individual gracenotes or where to change the image of a gracenote in a palette to look like a group of gracenotes and play like a group og quick gracenotes.......Is this possible...???? and where do I find it...?????....please..........
In reply to It seem hard to keep track of by muselt
Duration of grace notes is determined by whether they are appoggiaturas or acciaccaturas - the former are long, the latter short.
But indeed, it is difficult to follow all the different aspects of this thread. If in the end a consensus arises on some specific improvements that could be made to the notation of bagpipe music, it might be good to eventually start new threads. But best to wait until,there is clear consensus. And note that playback is another matter entirely. It's not hopeless to suggest bagpipe-specific playback improvements, but realistically it's pretty unlikely they would be implemented. Playback is definitely secondary, and even within the realm of playback, we really don't do any special processing unique to the characteristics of any given instrument.