Request For Comments: more lute and Baroque ornaments.
As I am working on adding more pre-Classical ornaments and as inevitably my experience has limits and my own priorities might be specialistic, I would like to hear from other interested peoples and fellow "early-musicians" (?!?) and try to arrive at some kind of consensus.
These are a few guide lines to reduce dead ends and further complications down the road:
- Ornaments to add should be present in the current edition of SMuFL (1.8).
SMuFL documentation can be download at http://www.smufl.org/download/ and the PDF itself directly at the link http://www.smufl.org/files/smufl-1.18.pdf. SMuFL is huge, the most relevant sections are:
- Other Baroque ornaments, p. 161
- French and English Renaissance lute tablature, p. 268
- Italian and Spanish Renaissance lute tablature, p. 271
If there are other ornaments, not currently in SMuFL but considered important, it might be useful to know about them and collect them for submission to SMuFL, but they will not be included in MuseScore right now.
- SMuFL is not always clear about distinguishing between shape and function; I think we should start from functions (i.e. roughly speaking, "musical meaning") rather than from shapes, even if shapes are what we actually see in scores. So, for instance, Couperin's Tremblement appuyé in p. 162 of SMuFL has the same shape as Marais' Pincé ou Flatement but a very different meaning; OTOH, Couperin tremblement can also be rendered (and often is rendered) in modern scores with the current MuseScore prall prall ornament, which has quite a similar meaning; so that specific shape might duplicate an existing function, have only an antiquarian value and not be worth adding.
So, in your suggestions, please refer to the function / meaning of the sign, rather than simply to its shape or, at very least, please tell if you consider important for inclusion because of the former or the latter.
- Please specify if you plan to use the sign in standard staves, in tablatures or both (we are allowed to disagree with SMuFL about contexts in which signs are used!).
- Please tell where the sign should be placed; several early ornaments have specific positions, not always fitting the modern habit of placing them above the note (and I do not necessarily know all the details!).
These is a list of the signs I am considering right now; probably not all of them and/or not all at once and some priority advice would be useful:
- From p. 161:
- U+E570 Port de voix
- U+E575 Hook before note
- U+E576 Hook after note
- U+E581 Comma, assuming it is what is also called tremblement by some authors
- From p. 162:
- U+E582 Shake (so we can stop overloading the "Stopped/pizzicato" sign, which is not an ornament at all!)
- U+E588 Pincé ? (not sure)
- U+E589 Tremblement appuyé ? (not sure, maybe use its shape for the flatement instead?)
- From p. 268:
- U+EBD1 Mordent with upper auxiliary
- U+EBD2 Mordent with lower auxiliary
- U+EBD3 Inverted mordent (not sure of the shape, though: a more breath-like shaped sign seems to me more common)
- U+EBD4 Appoggiatura from below ?
- U+EBD5 Appoggiatura from above ? (in case, with exactly that # shape?)
- From p. 271:
- ???
Thanks!
M.
Comments
Thanks Miwarre for this thread.
I have perhaps not thought of everything today, but for my use case (baroque tabs), this is what I use.
For reference: this link: http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKlk5JjQNdo
For the relative symbols SMUFL:
- Other baroque ornaments.pdf
- Combining strokes for trills and mordents.pdf
- Vibrato in Italian and Spanish Renaissance lute tablature.pdf
- Virgula.pdf
And a .mscz file to sum it all up: Baroque ornaments.mscz
EDIT: same file, in a Baroque style (letters), to load with a recent nightly: 1 Baroque ornaments.mscz
As said, I do not like the comma design (too contemporary, not Baroque enough), I prefer the virgula in "Medieval and Renaissance Staves". I re-saw the size, of course, of these symbols. For see them, simply select the symbols -> Text Properties -> Size
NB: the three notes that are not in green color, it is simply to say that they are a slow priority to me. That's all! :)
EDIT: Ah, of course, forgotten the "x". Very common.
Eg see the first image in this thread: https://musescore.org/fr/node/83076
The Smufl page: mordents.pdf
And the updated .mscz file (second page, bottom): 2 Baroque ornaments.mscz
In reply to Thanks Miwarre for this by cadiz1
Cadiz1, thanks for the reply and for the wealth of material.
A few notes, first about function vs. shape.
In particular, I know U+E575 and U+576 (hook before and after note) to be used in standard staves (not in tabs) like in this example (from J. Morel, Pièces de viole, 1709):
NOT FOUND: 1
Also, the signs in the U+E590 – U+E5AF range are used to create complex trill shapes (again in standard staves only, I believe), rather than as separate signs in tabs.
So I'm afraid this is going to belong to a different 'department', not to single-note ornaments (but remember me about this every now and then...)
Of course, it will make sense to define this detail mostly once the signs to consider will be identified.
I still have to peruse the reference text you posted; possibly I'll find there some of the answers. Anyway, many thanks again for the info!
In reply to Cadiz1, thanks for the reply by Miwarre
Hi Miwarre, as I'm also very interested in improving the baroque lute (and lute) functions in musicscore, I try to answer some of the questions.
It is very difficult to say, which ornament means which playing.
In the whole I would say that a right bow/hook, right comma mostly means the same: appoggiatura from above, perhaps also trills from above (that depends strongly on the different writers). The same is with the bow/hook from left or below that mean an appoggiatura from below, but also were used for port de voix.
So here it would probably be enough to have a bow/hook from the left and from the right (the comma would be more apropriate for the Renaissance lute).
It would be good also to have a little x from the left and right (for trills or mordents, depending on the writer.
Also the sign for mordent would be good to be placed right (or left).
For the vibrato often a # or doubled one or something like the wiggleVibrato, but longer had been in use.
In the late baroque there were some printed sources, that have an overview on the then used ornaments. I attach the table by Beyer in his setting of the Gellert Oden.
If you have questions on the ornaments and the German words, feel free to ask.
Thank you for improving the (baroque) lute tablature.
In reply to Hi Miwarre, as I'm also very by MLutz
BTW - the concept with the palette (in German: Gesamtpalette), that is show, if you type SHIFT-Z is very good. In symbols there are possibly all symbols that are necessary.
It would be good, if there would be a possibility in the dialogue to have the symbols placed right or left (other possiblities could also be useful) to a tablature sign; and also to be able to change the size. If now there was a new palette with the normally used lute ornaments (probably user configurable), that would ease up everything.
It's astonishing, what possibilities musescore already has out of the box! ;-).
In reply to Hi Miwarre, as I'm also very by MLutz
Is there any central place (page here, forum topic, project) to talk about the implementation of historic tablature? How can I inform interested people about feature suggestions, bugs, patches et al.?