Trill auto placement in 3.0
Does anyone think a trill line should be placed that far above a note when it's auto placed? There is nothing causing it to move that high.
In an attempt to reduce this distance, I use Format->Style...->Trill and changed the Y offsets for the trill above and there was no display change. I realize you can change them by selecting several and using the inspector, but I'm trying to change the default behavior.
Comments
Not sure about this issue. But I realize another one: Should the the trill line extend to the whole measure of the last note or to the notehead of the last note, see: https://archive.org/details/EssentialDictionaryOfMusicNotation_201303/p…
In reply to Not sure about this issue… by kuwitt
I've both all the time and usually adjust it if the source has it different. This source happens to have the trill going to the end of the measure.
I agree it's too high. I suspect the code calculating the bounding box for the trill line is too conservative. Try placing a plain line for comparison. Also try without the tie. Autoplace is seeing a collision betwene the trill and the tie, unnecessarily. That's why changing the default height isn't helping. There should probably be an additional setting here to set the autoplace minimum distance, as there is for some other elements. A negative value here would have worked around the problem nicely.
As for proper length, Gould goes to end of measure (or just before the next note), so that's what we do.
In reply to I agree it's too high. I… by Marc Sabatella
The plain line looks fine and removing the tie makes the trill look better but neither of those is the problem. The problem is that the Format->Style... setting has no effect on a trill. I did the same Y offset for an ottava as for a trill to see what would happen. When I changed the Y offset to -6, the ottava moved way up as expected and the trill line stayed put. The problem is that style changes are not being applied to trills.
When I first saw it, I thought it was simply a matter of taste. It's clear that a matter of taste or not, there is a problem.
It seems a bug report is called for.
In reply to The plain line looks fine… by mike320
OK, I see what you mean. My understanding is that style settings are supposed to set a default, and then autoplacement kicks in to possibly move the element from there to avoid a collision. If you turn off autoplacement, the element should return to its style default placement (collision or no), but I can see this isn't working for trills - it's always going back to 0. So yes, that's a bug.
I'd say it's also a bug that autoplacement is so aggressive here, detecting a collision unnecessarily. That's unrelated, and somewhat more minor in comparison, but also worth filing. I'd also support a suggestion that "autoplace min distance" be implemented for trills.
In reply to OK, I see what you mean. My… by Marc Sabatella
The min distance from the nearest line is my understanding. In my testing for this discussion, when I moved the ottava way up, it didn't move again until the notes under it made it move, and then it was a reasonable distance from the nearest note. If trills follow this procedure, I don't see a need for an "autoplace min distance."
I will put in two linked bug reports so it is clear they are related but their fixes are probably different.
In reply to The min distance from the… by mike320
Thanks. I've added my notes. To me, the need for autoplace min distance is the same as for any other element, to let different people set their own "house styles" for how far they want markings to be from notes. But indeed, with a good enough default, people are less likeley to want to customize.
In reply to Thanks. I've added my notes… by Marc Sabatella
This auto place min doesn't exist that I can see for the ottava. If it's in the other lines code and not the trill, then by all means fix it. If it's user adjustable...where is it?
In reply to This auto place min doesn't… by mike320
It's not implemented for ottavas, either, but is for slurs/ties, hairpins, dynamics, fermatas, staff text, tempo text, and rehearsal marks. I don't know what determined this list, or what other elements participate in automatic placement but don't have such a setting.
In reply to It's not implemented for… by Marc Sabatella
Now I see.
#278912: Style not passed to trill lines and #278914: Trill lines avoid ties by too much created.