Crescendos and decrescendos going over bar lines
All,
Really loving the beta so far! Kudos to all involved! The automatic placement is a huge time saver and an all around fantastic addition to an already amazing piece of software. Just curious if anyone else is noticing an issue with crescendos and decrescendos carrying across bar lines. This seems to happen more when there is a dynamic at the start of the next bar, and may be limited to when lyrics exist (at least that's when I notice it most). I'm attaching a couple of pictures of what I'm talking about. I don't remember this being an issue in the first alpha version and seems to have appeared in the second alpha. Thanks, and keep up the fantastic work!
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Crescendo_1.png | 23.96 KB |
| Crescendo_2.png | 50.39 KB |
Comments
Found another issue. Occasionally, I find that moving the crescendo above a staff with lyrics causes it collide with the lyrics above the staff. I'm attaching an example of this here as well.
In reply to Found another issue. … by theclarkster
it seems long melismas are ignored by the auto placement algorithm.
Confirmed, the hairpin doesn't quite line up with the dynamic when placed above the staff. I think that's just a matter of changing the "Position above" setting in Format / Style / Hairpin. Probably it should be changed int he defaults. Can you try -2.5sp in your score?
In reply to Confirmed, the hairpin doesn… by Marc Sabatella
That -2.5sp setting for placement above seems much better. Thanks! Out of curiosity, are hairpins supposed to continue across bar lines until the next dynamic change? I can't say that's something I've encountered this behavior (that I recall) in any sheet music I've seen. I also found one more strange problem with hairpin placement. See the attachment here, but occasionally on stretching one to the end of a bar results in it shrinking down to the first note where it begins.
In reply to That -2.5sp setting for… by theclarkster
You should normally be entering hairpins to end on the note before the next dynamic, and iMuseScore automatically does the correct thing by default here: if the next note is in the same measure, it stop just short of it, and if it is in the next measure, it stops just short of the barline. And as of 3.0, if there are dynamic markings on any of these notes, the length of the hairpin is adjusted to avoid collision. BTW, the only time you are normally supposed to cross the barline with a dynamic is if the first note of the next bar is unusually far away, like if the bar starts with a key or time signature. In that case, you will have to extend the crescendo manually.
As for the other problem you mention, we can't really say much from just a picture, looks weird, but who knows what's actually happening with a score and steps to reproduce the problem.
In reply to My belief is that you should… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for the clarification. That definitely sounds right. I think this is where the problem lies. If I adjust a hairpin (using shift+arrow key) to the last note of the measure, then it jumps across the barline. I'm attaching one more image here to show how the anchor is adjusting. I think the expected behavior is that they only cross the barline if the hairpin anchor is taken to the first note of the next measure.
Edit: I've also attached the score in question. It's a rehearsal score I'm working on for a choir.
In reply to Thanks for the clarification… by theclarkster
The issue with the hairpin jumping the barline seems happen only if the first note of the next measure has a dynamic. It's possible this was done deliberately, but to me it's a bug.
I quite like the crescendos that end in a dynamic crossing the barline. Encourages players to push right up to that note, gives more room for a starting dynamic if there is one. Only time I don't like it is the end of a system - it gets confused about the break and sets itself as short as it possibly can.
I haven't worked with any lyrics, btw. Crescendo 1 is messed up, 2 looks good to me.
In reply to I quite like the crescendos… by Laurelin
I hadn't thought of it that way. I suppose a musician reading a crescendo that way would definitely push right up to it. Thanks for giving me a new perspective!
In reply to I hadn't thought of it that… by theclarkster
I've seen some publishers who make all hairpins cross the bar line and some who never cross the bar line. It makes no difference to me, it means the same thing.
As for the hairpin shrinking, I saw that in anther issue several hours ago. See #279063: Crescendos display under single note when they end at a system break, crash on edit. I couldn't figure out how the crescendo was shrinking and the person posting the problem wouldn't or couldn't explain.
In reply to I've seen some publisher who… by mike320
It is definitely the same, and i suppose it really comes down to personal preference in visual presentation. I just noticed that there was a change in this behavior between the first alpha and now and wasn't sure if this was intentional or not. If the program is behaving as it should, then all is well. That said, do you know if there is a style setting for customising this behavior? I can always uncheck automatic placement and get the result I prefer, but then grand staffs tend to shrink back together. Thanks sharing your thoughts!
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what's going on with the single note hairpins, but it seems like they shrink whenever you try to extend them across a system or page break. Not sure if it's limited to notes that fill a whole bar or not, but that's where I first noticed it.
In reply to It is definitely the same,… by theclarkster
#279063: Crescendos display under single note when they end at a system break, crash on edit has an explanation of what's happening. Read that and you'll see that you found a bug and it really should be fixed before the 3.0 final release.