Sugartown - Assistance required please

• Dec 16, 2019 - 10:51

I am having trouble with this score, i am stuck trying to get the third bar right. I can get the first three notes right in the third bar, but totally stuck trying to get the tripple (A's) to go in, i know that's not the correct term for it but i don't understand the tech lingo.

Can some kind person advise me as to where i am going wrong please, in easy language please.

I have attached the original score i am working from and my MuseScore file, hope they both help you to spot my mistake.

Best Wishes Sugar Town.pdf Sugartown.mscz

Comments

• Dec 17, 2019 - 22:01

I am still having trouble with this score, On the 4th bar i have put the first two notes (A Quaver Note dotted, and a Semiquaver 16th note beamed )
Now as you see it puts a rest after these notes, when i try to put the next two notes it just keeps joining them to the others before. i am totally confused and have spent hours trying all sorts of things to try and correct this. Can you help please.
I have attached the files below. Sugar Town.pdf Sugartown.mscz

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• Dec 17, 2019 - 22:36

It's not necessarily wrong to beam that way in cut time (note your example does it in bar 1, but not bar 4, which is inconsistent), but if you prefer not to, see the Handbook under "Beams" and "Time Signatures" to learn how to customize beaming. The source you are copying does something that to me is odd, breaking the beam in measure 4 but not in measure 3. So probably there is no way to make the defaults be inconsistent like that, you'll want to use Beam Properties on measure individually if you wish to reproduce that particular editorial choice.

BTW, I notice you entered the triplet incorrectly in bar 3, you have only three beats in that measure because you entered quaver note tuplets (total duration: crotchet) when it should have been crotchet triplets (total duration: minim).

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 15:54

Ok i have spent the best part of the day reading the handbook and trying numerous tests trying to correct my errors, i have now managed to correct the 3rd bar but still can not get the 4th to work.
The strange this is that when i had a practice go at the 4th bar on an empty score it worked 3 times, great i thought i have cracked it, so went to try it on my main "Sugartown" score, hmmm still does not work, i just can not get the beaming right.

I am beginning to think that this piece of music was written by two different people, one who knew what they were doing and one who was a complete numpty !

I think i will just hand this sheetmusic back to my friend and try another song, as i don't seem to have any problems with others so far.

I do appreciate all the help so far though.

Kindest Regards Test Score.mscz Sugartown.mscz

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 16:01

Your test score is in 4/4, the real old in in 2/2. Thus, the default time signature properties are different. Did you go to time signature properties dialog? Did you try try to beam properties palette as suggested? It doesn;t look like it, everything in your score still seems to be at the default settings. Those are the specific sections of the Handbook you need to read. Or, as I said, don't worry about imitating the specific beaming choices made by that particular editor. Just enter the notes themselves and let MsueScore take care of the beaming, it's default are perfectly fine here so you shouldn't actually need to mess with them unless you have a specific need to copy the other editors subjective decisions.

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 16:16

Hi Marc, Yes i did read up on the areas you suggested but just did not understand it, maybe if i type out the methods i used up to the point i am stuck that might help you understand what i don't understand, as at the moment i am scratching my head.

Give me 30 min and i will type up a step by step of what i do, it will either explain or at best give you a good laugh.

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 17:05

Ok this is a step by step of what i did to create the first 4 bars as shown in attached. Don't laugh too much !

From the Jazz Lead Sheet
I select what Key is required.
Click Next
Choose Cut Time (2,2) As shown on original sheetmusic.

Select Number of bars
Click Finish.

1st Bar
Select first bar
Click on the – rest symbol to highlight it, then click on note value 6.

Now click on note value 4, This will now give me a 7 rest symbol, make this dotted.

Select the double 7 by moving cursor to the right and type (C)

Next note choose note value 4 and type (C) & make this dotted.

Move cursor to the right & select note value (3) & type (C)

Next note select note value (4) & type A

Next note value (5) & type A
Move cursor to the next 7 and choose note value (4) & type (G)

2nd Bar
Note value (4) Type A
Note Value (5) Type A
Note Value (4) Type G
Note Value (5) Type A
Tie third and 4th notes together.
3rd Bar
Highlight – Rest and click on note value (6)
Click on first – then click on note value (4)
Make first 7 dotted.

On the double 7 type C
Note value (4) Type C and make dotted
On the double 7 type C

Move to 2nd – Rest
Select note value (6)
Ctrl 3 & type 3 A’s

4th Bar
Note value (4) Type A and make dotted
Note value (3) Type (G)

Move cursor to rest
Note value (5) Type (G)

Test 2.mscz

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 19:54

I don't see that you ever tried using Beam Properties. Please read that section of the Handbook again - it is very detailed about how to use Beam Properties, which is what you need to change the beaming (assuming it's really important to you to change the default - as I have said, the default is actually fine).

But - you also entered the durations incorrectly. The last two sixteenths are supposed to be eighths. So you will need to fix that first. Then, you will need to select the first of the two eighths and apply the "Beam Middle" icon from the Beam Properties palette, exactly as described in the Handbook section on Beams.

BTW, your steps to enter the music so far are OK, but definitely way more work than necessary. You should have needed to touch the cursor keys at all - music would normally be entered left to right with no need to skip around at all. Notes, dots, ties, and rests are all entered left to right with no interruptions to the flow required.

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 18:00

Observe the image:
Note_entry1.png
Also, the little minus sign (circled in red) means that you may be in note 'Insert mode' rather than the default 'Step-time' mode of note input.
See:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/note-input-modes
especially:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/note-input-modes#steptime
for 'Step-time', and:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/note-input-modes#timewise
for 'Insert" which says:
"If, at any time, the total duration of the notes and rests within the measure does not match the time signature, a small + or - sign will be shown above the measure."

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 18:47

Hi Jm6stringer,

Thank you so much for your detailed and very helpful reply, i have just checked when i type N to go into not input mode, when i click on the little arrow by the side of the N it shows a tick in (Note Input) and (N Step-Time Default) is also highlighted. Is this correct ?

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 19:24

Yes, that's correct.
So, then regarding that little minus sign...
If you right click on a measure which displays a '-' or '+' and open 'Measure Properties' (in the drop down menu which appears) you will see the actual measure duration.

In fact, your second 'Sugartown.mscz' attachment posted earlier - the one with the 'bad' triplet - shows a minus sign above measure 3. It's hard to see, but it's there, sitting on top of the triplet beam:
Incomplete_measure.png

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 19:36

I am still lost as how to correct the 4th bar as i am sort of a novice at this as you have probably worked out but am trying my hardest to try and digest as much as i can as i really do want to work at this great software and eventually write my own music. but before that happens i have to work by writing out scores from books, this eventually i hope will give me some understanding and pick up on what i don't really understand as in the 4th bar in this song.
I just don't understand why i can't get these two double tuplets or whatever the word is to go with a space in-between as shown in the original score.
To you guy's it probably seems very easy and straightforward, but at the moment i do not understand what all these strange words mean that you all use to explain each thing, so i just explain and learn in simple terms as your could see by my step by step instructions.
If you could somehow explain (In very simple step by step) as to why i can't get the 4th bar right, and what i have to do to get it right it may help me understand it better.

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 20:33

Enter note entry by selecting the empty measure (or measure rest), then press each in turn:
4
.
A
3
G
4
A
G
5
+
Don't overlook the period '.' (dot) or the '+' (plus sign).

Here's a fun sample to experiment with:
Note_entry.mscz
(read the instructions)

For the time being, don't worry about the beaming (joining notes).
[In fact, if you drag a 4/4 time signature onto the first measure, you'll see the beams change.]

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• Dec 18, 2019 - 22:02

Thank you so much for helping me, i have just had a go at your fun sample and managed to duplicate the 2nd bar via your instructions no problem.

So am i right in thinking that typing the number before a letter gives museScore all the instructions needed to add what notes and where on the staves ? (Hope that's the right word)

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• Dec 19, 2019 - 04:25

You wrote:
So am i right in thinking that typing the number before a letter gives museScore all the instructions needed to add what notes and where on the staves?

The number indicates a note's duration (how long it sounds) and the letter denotes its pitch (placement on the staff). If the note's placement shows the wrong octave, pressing Ctrl+up arrow or Ctrl+down arrow will fix it.

As already mentioned, the numbers are keyboard shortcuts (so you don't have to click on the toolbar icons to change durations). Picture the note icon toolbar like this:

Note_toolbar_basic.png

and for the 'Advanced' toolbar:

Note_toolbar_advanced.png

You can right click on and save those pictures to use as future reference.
[Using the keyboard for note entry is ultimately the way to go.]

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• Dec 19, 2019 - 13:02

I seem to be getting on a little better today, i have read up on the Beam properties and used them to correct my beaming issue. and am now progressing through the score slowly but steadily as you can see by the attached MuseScore work sheet.

I have one more question, if you take a look at the attached jpeg, how do i add those chords to my score, i know how to add Chords to Rests and notes, but looking at that bar on the score there is nothing to add them too as the bar is empty. Hope i have explained that correctly.

I do hope i am not annoying you with these questions. I do value all the kind help you give me .

Best Regards Sugar Town.jpg Sugartown.mscz

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• Dec 19, 2019 - 17:01

One important thing I noticed...
During playback, measure 24 is played a second time (i.e., during the repeat) because it is not enclosed under the first ending (volta) line. (Compare to the pdf score.) You need to double click on the volta line and extend it using Shift+Right arrow.
See:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/voltas#change-volta-measures

Two minor things...
1. To get the beaming exactly like the pdf, measure 4 needs a broken beam.
2. The second volta line doesn't require the hook at the end. Click it and change the 'End hook' in the Inspector, or delete it and use the unhooked volta line from the lines palette.

Next hurdle looks like the chord fretboard diagrams???

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• Dec 19, 2019 - 18:19

Sugartown (My Working Copy).mscz All corrected now, thank you for pointing these few errors out to me, you have taught me so much the last few days, i am so grateful to you. at last i feel like i have reached the first rung of the ladder, onwards and upwards now...
Sorry forgot to add the amended score, i have now attached it for your checking.
I don't need the fret-board Sugartown (My Working Copy).mscz diagrams as i am a Keyboard player and not guitar, although i do have a Guitar and do intend to learn how to play it one day, but for now it's just Keyboard.

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• Dec 20, 2019 - 17:01

Looks good!
While frames and system breaks don't print onto a paper score, if you are using something like a laptop placed on your keyboard to view the music, you can open menu item: View, and then uncheck the boxes 'Show Unprintable' and 'Show Frames'.
This will provide a clean, easy to read sheet:
Frame_Breaks.png

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