Doubts to share soundfonts

• Nov 22, 2016 - 12:20

I'm sampling some voices from my music keyboard, this is legal? Can I share here?

Thank you in advance!


Comments

Hi,

I'm not a lawyer, but MIDI keyboards and similar devices containing packaged samples or soundfonts, are being used daily by composers and music studios to produce their own works (new music creations). And they don't have to seek permission to the makers of the devices to do so.

But I recall reading from (for example) Korg documentation, that it's strictly forbidden to redistribute or repackage, or to sell, the individual sound samples in their devices.

For example, the user's manual for the Yamaha PSR-E453 (from http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=pl&site=pl.yamaha.c…) says:

"Information
About copyrights

• Copying of the commercially available musical data
including but not limited to MIDI data and/or audio data is
strictly prohibited except for your personal use.

• This product incorporates and bundles contents in which
Yamaha owns copyrights or with respect to which Yamaha
has license to use others' copyrights. Due to copyright
laws and other relevant laws, you are NOT allowed to
distribute media in which these contents are saved or
recorded and remain virtually the same or very similar to
those in the product.

* The contents described above include a computer
program, Accompaniment Style data, MIDI data, WAVE
data, voice recording data, a score, score data, etc.

* You are allowed to distribute medium in which your
performance or music production using these contents is
recorded, and the permission of Yamaha Corporation is
not required in such cases"

See the last paragraph. It says clearly that you can distribute your performance, that is, your music played *using* the device, and there's no need to seek Yamaha permission in this case. At least this is my opinion.

But (from the other paragraphs above), I think there is a explicit restriction regarding making a soundfont out of the elements the Yamaha device provides. So, it seems you cannot go and record each sample of the keyboard, and then package and distribute it as a sondfont of yours.

In doubt, I would search your device's Manual or other available documentation, to locate the proper copyright statements (as in the case above)

No, I'm not a lawyer either, but ... the legal logic probably goes more-or-less like this:

Yamaha/Korg/whoever probably bought many of their sound-samples from someone else, under a royalty agreement which (say ...) grants the licensee some small percentage of revenue from sales.   It of course goes without saying that the purchasers of the equipment intend to use the sounds in their own songs, and to pay nothing further for the privilege.   But the understanding obviously would be that no third party (e.g. "someone who downloaded a SoundFont file from the Internet") would be able to reap the same benefit ... to produce songs that use these very sounds ... without having purchased a piece of hardware (and therefore contributed a few more pennies to the royalties).

Therefore, n-o ... I would assume that it is not legal for you to extract the sounds from a device and to then to publish those sounds as a SoundFont.   (Because, in that scenario, “someone who rightly deserves to get paid ... isn’t.”)

In reply to by mrobinson

people have been sampling from hardwares since forever
back in 90s, there were many many commercial sample CDs of this kind
publishers even clearly stated the hardware models used on the CD cover

eric persing has been doing that since atmosphere
and he tried to duplicate MKS20 in his new product keyscape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg2f2aEmKa8

so I don't think OP will get into trouble by doing that

In reply to by mrobinson

Eric Persing has been sampling from hardwares since forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg2f2aEmKa8

Plus, there were many commercial sampling CDs that are sampled from hardwares back in 90s.
The publishers even made that clear in the CD covers.
and Best Service, SoundOnline, Time&Space were the dealer/distributor at the time.

So, i am very sure that OP will not get into any trouble by doing that.

In reply to by vintagesamples

So, i am very sure that OP will not get into any trouble by doing that.

If you now would be able to back up that statement with any legal reference that would be great. So far however, every publishing and copyright law known to me quite clearly state that re-distrubuting and publishing something you do not have the explicit rights (granted) for is illegal.

I have yet to encounter the first court ruling where someone did not have to pay a fine just because "everyone did it back in the day".

In reply to by jeetee

no, but I offer facts
If you dislike commercial libraries from 90s, then here are some modern commercial libraries that are sampled from hardwares

Spectrasonics Omnisphere

Zero G Nostalgia

Native Instruments
Kontakt
(plus a lot 3rd party commercial libraries in kontakt format)

Native Instruments
FM8

UVI Digital Synsations

UVI Vintage Vault

actually i bother to argue if that's a legal action, and i never said so.
i just trying to tell you guys what the real world is like and to prove that sampling from hardwares wont get you into trouble.

In reply to by vintagesamples

The catch-rate of this felony is a fact that had nothing to do with the question; the OP asked whether doing so was legal or not; your answer raised the impression that is was, while it isn't.

By your logic though, murdering someone in an area where the statistical chances of being found and or tried and then found guilty is just fine. It is not. And yes, this is a skewed and exaggerated argument, but it clearly demonstrates the point.

In reply to by jeetee

no, you dont get the logic
it is NOT about the chances of being found guilty

because the OP asked if he/she can share the sampled sf2 here so i was just trying to say:
yes you can
many companies have been doing that for years
they will keep doing that as well
all hardware manufacturers know that their hardwares have been used for direct sampling
and decide to tolerate that

those soft-synths i mentioned are very well known ones, actually, kontakt,fm8 are the industrial standard.

and if you know the sound of Roland TR808/TR909
you will find that there are too many libraries were sampled from them since AKAI-sampler-era.

i guess you are not very familiar with music industry huh

In reply to by vintagesamples

No need to try to go personal on this matter; but you'll find me to be quite familiar with the music industry. I'll happily talk to you about my experience and references over a beer on a different occasion.

The original question was whether the sharing of what the OP samples is legal. I'll even cite the original question here for you:

I'm sampling some voices from my music keyboard, this is legal? Can I share here?

The answer is undoubtedly no, it isn't legal.

It's really that simple.

In reply to by vintagesamples

let me add that...
Eric Persing could be the license owner for some Roland sound as he had worked for Roland
I am not 100% sure for Eric's case

but take Zero G Nostalgia as an example
it was originally created by Hollow Sun
and it was a free download until Zero G bought that
Hollow Sun offered some more hardware samples for free back then
do you really think that they would pay for the license fee to offer something for free ?

Zero G Datafile is also a good example of illegal commercial sampling

I worked for 2 hardware synth manufacturer back in 90s
so I do know a thing or two about hardware sampling issue
actually I cant help but LOL whenever I see threads like this

If someone created a soundfont taken from hardware and explicitly noted what hardware it was, then I daresay that either they or their lawyer or both “in some way, covered their posterior.”   They probably found someone to “ask for permission,” and carefully documented the exchange.

And so, that's precisely what I’d suggest that you do:   due diligence.

Also, by all means, ask a lawyer (who practices in copyrights and intellectual property).   Describe what you want to do, and if s/he agrees that what you want to do is kosher, pay this person to write you a letter on his/her letterhead which states what you intend to do and which, in the same letter, confirms that, in his/her opinion, what you propose to do is legal.   Keep that letter forever.   It will be well worth the hundreds of dollars you will pay for it.

In short:   “ask someone who knows.”

- - -
So, the very worst happens:   someone challenges you and serves you with a “cease and desist” letter.   (Which, of course, you immediately do!)   You now have the ammunition that you need, should it ever come to that, to plead to the Honorable Court that any infringement, should it be found to exist, is innocent.   Your “Exhibit A” is a letter-on-letterhead, signed by “so-and-so, Esquire.”

It also should go without saying that, in every step of this publishing project, you should keep a detailed written log.   What did you do, and when did you do it?   Exactly when did you call anyone, who did you speak to, what did they say?   Exactly when did you upload a file, to where and under what name?   And so on and on and on and on and ...   (That will be “Exhibit B.”)   Any objective trier of fact, looking objectively at what you have provided, will have all the objective information they will need.   (And, much more likely, anyone who might bring charges against you will probably decide not to.)

In reply to by mrobinson

LMAF
for audio samples
if you ever receive a cease and desist letter
no you don't need to prove yourself innocent
no one expects that
simply take down what you had uploaded
and you will be fine

you don't need any lawyer
90% lawyers cant tell you what actually happened in the audio industry
go to some audio production forums
and ask for the history/background of beats/synths sample cds in AKAI/EMU format
how those cds were produced
some producers might tell you the truth

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