Why do Concert Pitch instruments start transposing at the lowest notes?
Hi, I want to share something that many people have encountered but don't seem to realise...
Seriously, why do Concert Pitch instruments (e.g. Piano, Marimba) start transposing (or still play the correct notes with a transposed pitch sounding with it) when you play the lowest notes?
I don't know if this is a bug or not, since the REAL instruments are like that as well.
Is the problem with the real instruments themselves or with Musescore? I'm uncertain.
However, if NOTHING is wrong with the instruments/Musescore, can someone provide an explanation for Concert Pitch instruments starting to transpose as you go lower?
If you don't understand what I mean (I have very little knowledge on proper music terminology), please look at the attached score.
Thanks for reading!
BONUS: Soundtrack Synthesizer is actually Concert Pitch, but G is heard at the same time you play a C. What is the category for instruments that are BOTH Concert Pitch and transposed?
And how did I manage to create this less than an hour? I'm good at play-by-ear, so identifying pitches feels easy for me...
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Comments
Not sure exactly what you mean still. There are no transposing instruments in your score. You did change the clefs that equate to 8vb and 15vb ottavi. If you are wondering why unplayable notes in the violin and marimba still play, its because the sound font allows for impossible notes to be played. Not all sound fonts allow for this.
It appears the sountrack synthesizer is playing a C chord for the C. I'm not sure if this is what is expected or not. Someone more familiar with the instrument would need to comment on that.
I also don't understand the question - there are indeed no transposing instruments anywhere in your score. For some reaosn it seems you have inserted some odd clef changes into your score, not sure why. Or maybe this score was imported from some other program that inserted those clef changes? Or it was the result of MIDI import? In order to help, we need more information - what exactly you are trying to do, what you did, what you expected to see happen, what happened instead.
Okay. Let me try to explain once more. The score is meant to show that the lowest notes on a Marimba/Piano DON'T sound like Concert Pitch (e.g. A doesn't sound like A, B doesn't sound like B, and so on).
I made a new version of the score, and I hope you could understand what I meant.
In reply to Okay. Let me try to explain by Synthyche
I think maybe you are being confused by the fact that the sound you apparently chose for the instrument called "Soundtrack Synthesizer" automatically plays everything in fifths. Not sure why, I guess whatever that instrument is works that way (like some organ stops). Also, some of the notes you wrote are extremely low and have fundamental frequencies that are well below what most computer speakers can reproduce accurately, so the intonation can seem a but quirky. Plus the equipment and instrument used when sampling the sounds probably was being stretched to their limits.
If you tell us which specific note - which staff, which measure, which beat - you are having trouble understanding, we can help further. But as far as i can tell, everything is explained by what I just said.
In reply to I think maybe you are being by Marc Sabatella
Now I know why the low notes sound "transposed" in Concert Pitch instruments!!
Since the Piano soundfont comes from a Yamaha (read:good) piano and you already mentioned the technical problems, I understand now that you told me.
Musescore ALWAYS samples soundfonts from the BEST QUALITY instruments (this is a SERIOUS compliment!). But, a REAL Bass Marimba from a GOOD brand has this problem! Can you explain why the real instrument does that as well? Since it's not Musescore's problem due to frequency limits, it should be the real instrument's problem.
In the updated score, it can be seen that Bass Marimba starts transposing at G1 and lower, while Piano starts transposing at D1 and lower. If the frequency gets below the limit (notes start transposing) at DIFFERENT pitches, does that mean different instruments playing the SAME note have different frequencies? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks for the explanation!!
In reply to Now I know why the low notes by Synthyche
It must be normal. You don't hear too many chords written in that low range in an orchestra, such as C2-E2-G2 (which is in the lower range of contrabassoon and double bass). Rather than sounding like a chord it sounds out of tune. This is because the frequencies are so low, that the difference between the two notes causes the wa-wa-wa that you hear when a note is out of tune with a unison note. The distance between two notes in that range is much less than the same two notes even an octave higher, that there is not much room for them to move before they sound very out of tune.
In reply to Now I know why the low notes by Synthyche
Again, there is no transposing at all. As far as I can tell, what you are hearing is *completely normal*. The low notes of a real piano, or a real bass marimba, really do have very complex overtone profiles, making their true pitch difficult to discern. And again, these very low frequencies also stretch the limits of the microphones used to record these sounds as well as the speakers you are listening through. That is to say, a real piano and a real bass marimba really does sound kind of funny in the lowest notes, and MuseScore is representing that awkward sound as well as it can within the limits of the recording technology used when sampling and the speakers you are using when listening to the result.
In reply to Now I know why the low notes by Synthyche
According to the characteristic of the instrument (resonance), on the lower (and very lower) notes, some unwanted harmonics (overtones) begin to appear. This is natural.
For example: Tubular bells.
On the desktop speakers: we hear also some artificial harmonics due to their construction. (Too much in bad ones, less in good ones).
more than one (very low) bass sounds should not be used together. Because unwanted effects occur.
Also, This is reason for the debate between bassists and pianists in some music groups.
In reply to Now I know why the low notes by Synthyche
Check out some info on harmonic series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(music)
Note that it basically goes root, octave, octave and a fifth, etc.
So, hearing the fifth is very common, especially from bass notes.
The root may be there, but it may seem much more quiet.
This natural progression does not apply to all instruments.
Square waves have only the odd numbered harmonics.
Bells, marimbas, and almost all percussion can be much more complicated.
In reply to Check out some info on by mkjnovak
Also Crash-cymbal: We hear a high-frequency/high-pitched sound, due to the harmonics that overlap. (its sound really crashed :D )
Get your ear close to the edge of a real Crash-cymbal and listen. You will hear a bass sound. : o
Oh...so, what I'm hearing is just overtones due to frequency "issues" that are actually normal.
Thanks to everyone who replied here!
In reply to Oh...so, what I'm hearing is by Synthyche
I should add that another contributing factor is trying to enter notes that are actually below the range of a standard marimba. These are probably produced by taking a recording of the lowest marimba note and altering it electronically (eg, slowing it down) to lower the pitch, which no doubt introduces some additional artifacts). For piano, the notes you entered aren't out of range, but most soundfonts don't sample every note, so some of the pitches are generated by similarly speeding up / slowing down recordings of other notes, which again introduces some artifacts.
Feel free to try other soundfonts, BTW - see the Handbook under "Soundfonts".