Consecutive Fifths/Octaves
What are some examples of consecutive fifths/octaves that are not allowed in music?
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What are some examples of consecutive fifths/octaves that are not allowed in music?
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Consecutive fifths and octaves have to do with counterpoint, where 2 lines are playing different rhythms and notes from each other. During counterpoint it is "unacceptable" to have the two lines have consecutive fifths or consecutive octaves because the individuality of the two lines becomes lost due to their consonant nature. In this picture
the composer is expected to have one of the notes in red in each measure be different than it is, often by changing the direction of the leap of the second note in one line to prevent consecutive fifths in the first measure and consecutive octaves in the second.
Every great composer broke this rule at some point, most on many occasions. To say this is not allowed is inaccurate, but rather to be greatly avoided to keep the music moving.
In reply to Consecutive fifths and by mike320
Could you explain as what is consecutive fifth here?
In reply to Could you explain as what is by karthiks25
The distance between an A and an E is a fifth as well as the distance between a B and a D. So 2 notes in a row are separated by a fifth.
In reply to The distance between an A and by mike320
and one is immediately after the other, making them consecutive.
In reply to The distance between an A and by mike320
Looking upon the red coloured notes,
AE = Perfect 5th
GD = Perfect 4th
BB = An octave
AA = An octave
Second set is consecutive octave
1) First set is not consecutive fifths. Am I correct?
2) Also, if even one note comes in between the AA BB octave, is it not a consecutive octaves?
In reply to Looking upon the red coloured by karthiks25
Both staves are in treble clef.
In reply to Both staves are in treble by xavierjazz
Yes in treble clef only, AE and GD
In reply to Yes in treble clef only, AE by karthiks25
it's GD and not DG (5 vs 4)
In reply to Looking upon the red coloured by karthiks25
AE and GD are both 5ths.
In reply to AE and GD are both 5ths. by mike320
ok..they are consecutive fifths..
How many notes should interfere to make this a non-consecutive fifths?
Also should it interfere in both the clefs or any one clef interference is fine...
In reply to ok..they are consecutive by karthiks25
Consecutive means one directly after another.
In reply to ok..they are consecutive by karthiks25
It only takes one note to interfere. An anacrusis or grace note is not sufficient to be considered a note to break this up though. As I said above, it is normal to make one of the voices move in the opposite direction to end on a different note that is part of the intended chord.
In reply to It only takes one note to by mike320
thanks. it's clear now that even one note in any one stave is enough to break the consecutive pattern.
In reply to It only takes one note to by mike320
The rule prohibiting parallel fifths pertains to strict counterpoint and music from the period of common practice. In either of these domains, the note used to break up a parallel fifth may only be a) a leap upwards of a fourth in the upper voice, or b) a leap upwards of a third in the lower voice. a) is weak since it results in a P8 going to a P5 (two perfect consonances in a row) but it's acceptable if it occurs between the bass and alto or the soprano and tenor. b) is by far the better solution since it allows the second fifth to be approached by stepwise contrary motion, which is the correct way to approach a fifth.
In reply to Consecutive fifths and by mike320
side note:
I tried to read in the upper line in Treble Clef and the lower line in Bass Clef.
And I thought you uploaded the wrong file.
Then I realized that they were both in the Treble Clef. :D
In reply to side note: I tried to read in by Ziya Mete Demircan
I just used a file I had opened and put it in concert pitch so if I tried to play it, it would sound right. They were both treble clef. ;)
Saying they are not allowed in music is a major overstatement. It's not an absolute rule, more a "suggestion" that really goes more like this: "if you want your music to sound good according to 16th-18th century standards, don't use this sound without good reason". As mike320 mentions, even during those centuries many composers would still occasionally use this sound if it suited their purpose. And since the 19th century, there are many contexts in which this sound really is perfectly fine, even desirable. You pretty much can't have most much rock music without that sound, for instance.
If you search the internet for counterpoint, you will find many books online covering this, including the original manual on counterpoint by Fux. These books will explain all of the rules of counterpoint if you are interested in it. Counterpoint is still taught to composition students in universities today. You can learn a lot about composing music from this study even if you discard many of the rules once you start writing your own music.
In reply to If you search the internet by mike320
Here is another explanation for the ban on parallel fifths: https://www.academia.edu/73594631/Why_are_parallel_fifths_forbidden